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by DevilsAdvocate
20 Apr 2010, 09:53
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

This gets right to the crux of the topic...can the church continue its growth and strength if 1) a member does not believe many dogmatic teachings ...and 2) if one does not believe he/she must attend/receive the temple ordinances to "make it to the best place in heaven" in the next life? Let's face...
by DevilsAdvocate
19 Apr 2010, 11:31
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

Okay, i think this is well said DA, and let me add two cents. The problem I see with this (WIDELY used in the ranks) forest analogy is that it is dangerous because we don't take into account the residual effect of losing "a few" of the top notch leaders and members from a local branch or ward. We p...
by DevilsAdvocate
16 Apr 2010, 10:48
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

...we are talking about a religion founded on a difficult mythology (and I don't mean untruth) for this modern time - as well as a religion that requires MUCH more of its active members than most other religions. ...There are plenty of things I wish were different, especially in the Intermountain W...
by DevilsAdvocate
16 Apr 2010, 10:28
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

The LDS Church is NOT falling apart the way many disaffected members make it sound...What I'm saying simply is that I believe those who are doomsday-ing the state of the LDS Church aren't doing so based on the reality of the situation as a whole. ...Part of the reason I am not as pessimistic as som...
by DevilsAdvocate
14 Apr 2010, 15:53
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

DA, why does it have to be anything different than what they actually said - to bring the temples closer to the members, so more members could attend and do so more often? Why can't it be that they who make those decisions, especially Pres. Hinckley who was the apparent catalyst for the decision, s...
by DevilsAdvocate
14 Apr 2010, 12:01
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

My guess is that it never was the distance keeping members away from the temple as much as the interview requirements. Otoh, it makes all the difference in the world for those who used to have to travel for a week and now can attend in a day or two total travel time. Suddenly a once-in-a-lifetime t...
by DevilsAdvocate
14 Apr 2010, 08:48
Forum: History and Doctrine Discussions
Topic: Spiritual Gifts: Then and Now
Replies: 20
Views: 2411

Re: Spiritual Gifts: Then and Now

Rix, this is the first I have heard of this claim, and I'm really surprised to hear it. BTW, I once corresponded with Dr. Owens. He does have some interesting ideas, but I found his gnostic ideas not very useful for me. With respect Rix....I don't know about the "likely" part. I've read similar art...
by DevilsAdvocate
13 Apr 2010, 12:23
Forum: History and Doctrine Discussions
Topic: Spiritual Gifts: Then and Now
Replies: 20
Views: 2411

Spiritual Gifts: Then and Now

Reading some of the early history of the Church, I was interested by some of the accounts of visions, speaking in tongues, prophecies, etc. reported by many different members in the Kirtland Temple and other early Church meetings. This seemed to be very different from what most members experience in...
by DevilsAdvocate
12 Apr 2010, 13:19
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

Fwiw, Hawk's suggestions actually are being implemented at the top. Receiving and living by personal revelation has been one of the major themes of General Conference for at least the last three conferences - and I can't remember the last time I've heard someone at General Conference even hint that...
by DevilsAdvocate
12 Apr 2010, 13:16
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth
Replies: 50
Views: 4222

Re: Challenges to Sustained Church Membership and Growth

I started to contemplate some of the differences in the early Mormon converts and "some" of the converts of today...The Quaker Church will NOT allow anyone to convert until they have proven that they are committed enough to get themselves to church on time each Sunday. I might suggest that this wou...