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DJ and everyone,... Its pretty clear I waffle between wanting to "stayLDS" and being totally out. I feel myself shift, trying to reframe things in my own mind to make it work, and I discover something else I didn't know which blows it apart. I can't honestly say I have the desire to keep trying. I e...

On Own Now wrote:Rob,

I suppose that my view of events in the deep past is that I don't feel compelled to assign either Good or Evil adjectives to BY. He did a lot of bad things and he did a lot of good things. The imprint he left on history is a combination of the two.

I agree. Its a mixed situation.

I'm not gunna post any more on this thread. I've killed it enough... Finished the book 2 days ago. Onto the next. I'm gunna throw in a motivational book in there somewhere as well....for some positive stuff. If you have aversion to harsh and extremely critical tone and commentary, this is not the bo...

Rob, I find it helpful to compartmentalize a bit. I think you are making a lot of generalities and assumptions and trying to group us all together. we accept Brigham Young as a prophet of God...And, these are the men who we revere as prophets of God? So, who are you including in "we"? I don't accep...

I can see OON, nibbler, and DJ have responded with how they view it. What is your strategy forward to stayLDS while reading this book? I'm not LDS Heber. My name is not on the role ,...and working toward "stayLDS" is becoming tricky. What is interesting is about 30 years ago in Australia I knew peo...

Hi Heber,.... I read historical things that I can't find in any "pro" lds books. I've read a few dozens or more "pro" books. When I read those lds books, I've gotten a good sense of moral values the church espouses. One is honesty, and a talk years ago from Elder Ashton sets specific criteria for ho...

I was about to write a response much like Nibbler's. I agree that OON was just saying that along with the bad, BY accomplished a lot of good things. I agree that the kind of hero worship of GAs and especially church presidents is bad, and it's obvious that Young's history is just as whitewashed as ...

R4H, I do agree that BY was a less-than-optimal leader. He'd be my least favorite President to meet, I'm sure. There is much to lay at his feet: the Ban, institutionalization of polygamy, theocracy at a much greater level than JS, the cover up of the MMM, etc. But, as Ray said, I also believe he wa...

I will be done with this book today. I've learned several new things. The tone of the 2nd half of this book is QUITE hostile--if you have an ax to grind and want to fan flames,...this book will do it. The authors personal angst spills into the pages. That being said, I found some things written abou...

This book is on hold for the moment...I"m almost done with the other one (it seemed like an easier read and was a spur of the moment thing)....and when I am done will turn back to this one.