John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

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university
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Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 17:19

John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by university » 15 Jan 2015, 12:43

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/us/jo ... ation.html

Part of me knew this was coming. Disappointed but not surprised. :problem:

Roy
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by Roy » 15 Jan 2015, 13:57

I agree that I am not completely surprised. The organization of the church has the right to deliniate and enforce its own boundaries. Kate Kelly was somewhat more cut and dry because she formed a movement.

John is a little different because he is providing forums and microphones for various movements and voices that may be critical of the church. However John has also crossed the line several times and not remained just an impartial interviewer. The article claims that he is a supporter of Ordain Women and same sex marriage rather than just being sympathetic of these groups. At what point can a producer/interviewer/forum host be held responsible for the content of their forum. At what point does John become a sort of figurehead or spokeman for these critical viewpoints. It would seem that some people in church leadership are connecting dots that suggest that John stands in an adversarial position to the church. The NY times article does not mince any words in calling John a "Mormon critic."

The excommunication may not happen of course. This is not the first time we have been down this road. Going to the media can be a double edged sword. I believe that in some cases it causes the church to be extra cautious - sometimes to the effect of not moving forward with discipline. In other cases it strengthens the church’s resolve to move forward.
“if given the choice between denying my conscience and facing excommunication, I’d much rather be excommunicated.”
I do not believe this quote will do John any favors.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Ann
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by Ann » 15 Jan 2015, 14:19

I'd just say, Thanks, John, for the 500+ podcasts. Taken as a whole, they've helped me stay.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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DarkJedi
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by DarkJedi » 15 Jan 2015, 14:50

I can't say I'm really surprised, either. I'll just note that there are other possible outcomes to church disciplinary councils - excommunication is not the only avenue open. I think that will in large part depend upon John's demeanor.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by mom3 » 15 Jan 2015, 16:02

Nice thought Dark Jedi, but I don't think it will be anything less than an excommunication. The church as a leadership is tired, the won't close blogs or Sunstone or Dialogue, but I think the only way they feel they can keep some balance is by closing particular doors. This is one of the biggies.

I believe this one will hurt far more people than Kate Kelly's did and like Ann said there are many people who have remained in the church because of John, shutting him out may have disastrous repercussions. The pain from and fall out from Kate's excommunication still exists.

Handcart pulling is going to get a lot harder.

I wonder how these events will look in 50 years?
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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mom3
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by mom3 » 15 Jan 2015, 16:53

For anyone interested in sharing their positive feelings about John's work you can share your story on his face book page. He has a request out if you like.
Looking for a person who feels like I've helped them stay active in the church who is willing to speak with a reporter. Please don't message me. Just post the reply here. Then I will contact you. Thanks in advance.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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LookingHard
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by LookingHard » 15 Jan 2015, 16:55

John gave a status a few months ago and after I read that I thought, "well john is going to be x'ed"

I am sad, but I can't see anything but him being x'ed.

I will be down big time when it happens.

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Sheldon
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by Sheldon » 15 Jan 2015, 16:56

Looks like the Founder of "StayLDS" is leaving the building......................

Curt Sunshine
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Jan 2015, 19:04

I've said for a long time that John has been bi-polar in his actions. He has been in and out so many times I stopped keeping count. I really like and respect him, but this has been coming for a long, long time. Not to be insensitive, but it is what it is.

Also, just to say it clearly, John founded this site, but he has never been an active participant. This is not his site in that sense, even though he started it. It is our site, and that is important to me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: John Dehlin Facing Excommunication

Post by SilentDawning » 15 Jan 2015, 20:06

I am sorry to hear they are being proactive in doing this to him. I feel for John.

I wish I could go to the press like he wants but there would be too much at stake.

When I read the article about his disciplinary council, I had this thought -- that what is happening is a lot like the inquisition. Someone disagrees, criticizes, and you punish them.

With how pervasive negativity and criticism is about the church on the Internet, I don't see the point of doing this to John this time.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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