are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

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pinklemonade
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are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by pinklemonade » 02 Jul 2014, 13:00

:wave: Hi! I've been a :silent: lurker :silent: for a while now and this is my first post.

Since being endowed before I got married 2 years ago, I have had an extremely difficult time wearing garments. I tried every fabric, every style, special ordered, and even tried the dreaded one pieces. Nothing works for me physically or psychologically. How could God insist that I do something that makes me uncomfortable and gives me anxiety? I would cry every day when I got dressed and would wake up at night sweating and in tears. I felt like something was wrong with me because I didn't know anyone else who had problems with like I did. I also didn't know that my underwear is other people's business??? My husbands mother came over when our AC was out and was just appalled that I was wearing soccer shorts and a tank top and gave me $50 and told me that I had "covenanted to wear garments" and insisted I go buy more. I had a friend point out while standing in line at a restaurant with people all around that I wasn't wearing them because my jeans were worn out above my knee. Last summer my SIL called me out of the blue and ask them why I wasn't wearing garments and said she was concerned for my salvation. HA. It's funny now, but at the time it was absolutely mortifying and I felt like a disgrace and that something was wrong with me. I took my grievances to the Lord in the temple and had personal revelation that He understood and I was okay to wear them to church on Sundays and when I attended the temple, which was all I can give. I regretfully confided in my Bishop in my last TR interview. haha and yup! The interview went worse than you think. I had talked to my mom about what to say in the interview because I feel 100% guiltless before God, but when it came down to it, I felt guilty before man and couldn't tell him I wear them "day and night" because I don't. Bad move on my part. Now I'm labeled. Sigh. The more I look into the actual question and think back on the endowment session, the question they ask doesn't make sense and that paragraph they read at the beginning of the interview about wearing them when you garden and work out but then goes onto say it's a personal decision just seems like one big contradiction. Does my personal revelation not matter? Is that unrighteous dominion for my bishop to push aside the things the Lord told ME of something that pertains to ME? My struggle with garments has stemmed off into other questions and doubts, especially because my family members have each been going through their own faith transition since my endowment. A couple of them have had their records removed from the church, which I fully respect but it has me extremely confused and it's upsetting. It's like my whole foundation crumbled. So as you can infer, I have one extreme to the other when it comes to family dynamics and it's hard on my marriage. I feel very blessed to have a husband who is very understanding, but it's been hard. Sorry for the long, confusing story.

Sooooo...my question - does anyone have references to actual revelation that was given about garments? What is the history of them?

...

Are they just a cultural obsession that don't really have any relevance to anything besides killing passion and being modesty enforcers? And why does the waistband have to come up so friggin high? AND WHY is there a super tight seam on the thigh that suffocates my hard-earned quad muscle? The struggle is real, you guys :crazy: :lol:

Thank you in advance!

Roy
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Roy » 02 Jul 2014, 14:37

Welcome!

To begin, I do not recommend wearing panties and garments at the same time. That is a recipe for disastrous bunching. :lol:

You are totally normal. Check out these links to learn about problems that women have with Garments.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3217&hilit=+garments

http://bycommonconsent.com/2013/05/13/f ... ent-298379

The second link is very succinct and a good summary of the issues.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 02 Jul 2014, 15:28

I do not recommend wearing panties and garments at the same time. That is a recipe for disastrous bunching. :lol:
and yeast infections! (see my post for some information on that one - I wrote the BCC piece linked above.

We don't covenant to wear them day & night in the temple. We don't covenant to wear them at all. We are instructed to wear them "throughout your life" in the initiatory. That's it. The TR interview questions don't match what it actually said in the temple.

Roadrunner
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Roadrunner » 02 Jul 2014, 15:54

Not all bishoprics get into policing garment, but some do, and it's too bad your interview went poorly. One more reason to keep the answers to a Yes or No. I personally have better things to worry about than what people are wearing. Also - and I've done no research on the subject - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the rules of garment wearing are "tribal knowledge" that evolve over time. There are many others here much more knowledgeable than me that could opine.

The fact is that wearing the garment is between you and the Lord, not your mom, sister, whoever. I think you could tell them that. My wife asked me why I started buying the "petite" size when I can wear the regular size just fine. I (kindly) told her that they sell them so they must not care if I buy them and that ended the discussion.

As a side note, it took me, my family, and my in laws about 5 or 6 years before we all understood our limits. Perhaps I didn't set the boundaries clearly and perhaps they chose to ignore the boundaries (or both) but part of the problem may be setting boundaries.
Last edited by Roadrunner on 02 Jul 2014, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 Jul 2014, 15:57

I highly recommend reading the links Roy provided. One of them has dozens of comments.

I actually suggest that some people wear regular underwear beneath the garment, especially for certain body image issues or just to feel sexy in a marriage. I absolutely do NOT recommend wearing them above the garment. Uh, no.

Yeah, it's best to answer the temple recommend questions with just a "yes" or "no". They don't require any details, so I never go into any - and the vast majority of Bishops and Stake Presidents won't ask for detail. Those who do are out of line.

Short answer: Hawkgrrrl's response is correct, if not complete. The covenant in the temple simply is to wear it throughout one's life and not "defile" it. Frankly, I think wearing it every day, all day (which I do, except for times of extended foreplay :oops: :silent: ), next to the skin, "defiles" it in a very literal way - AND the official statement actually says that exactly how each person wears it is between that person and the Lord. (It is referenced in the long thread in Roy's comment, and I'm too lazy right now to look it up there.)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Leap
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Leap » 02 Jul 2014, 16:56

Ray DeGraw wrote:The covenant in the temple simply is to wear it throughout one's life and not "defile" it.
I agree except that I think "covenant" should be replaced with "instruction" here. At least as far as I can tell, there is no covenant (this would require a promise made to God) to wear the garment either in the initiatory or endowment. If I am remembering the ceremonies wrong please correct me. I don't mean to split hairs here. I just think there is a big difference between being told to do something and covenanting to do it.
Last edited by Leap on 03 Jul 2014, 15:21, edited 1 time in total.

SGoodman
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by SGoodman » 02 Jul 2014, 17:43

Pinklemonade, I intend this post to be entirely constructive And nonjudgmental. I don't want you o read any condemnation into what I wright.

You resorted to wearing them only in Temple (an entirely appropriate place to wear them) and in Church on Sunday. I was going to criticize the use on Sundays as vain and simply to be seen by others but you explained how many people in your circle decided to concern themselves with your spiritual choices and I realized that's exactly why you did it and there's no shame in trying to shut them up. Their penchant for butting in is an entirely different discussion.

You said that your reaction to the garments was discomfort, anxiety, "I would cry every day when I got dressed and would wake up at night sweating and in tears." It's just underwear. What about this could possibly create that level of tension in you?

Here's my Temple Garment story (only my story isn't about garments). When I was first baptized I wasn't thrilled about tithing....so I didn't pay it. My Bishop encouraged me to pay tithing so I did but I begrudged every dollar so I stopped. I didn't want to pay tithing and when I did pay it I wasn't getting anything out of it but anger and resentment so why would I do that to myself? Eventually I got called on a mission and that required Endowments which meant a Temple Recommend and tithing. So I made it a matter of prayer and my prayers were mostly based on "help me not see this in such a negative light. Just help me feel ok with it." Along with prayer, I studied tithing historically, doctrinally, and financially. I thought about it all the time, and all the while I was paying it. I gained a strong and joyful testimony of tithing and only days later I got an enormous financial blessing that confirmed for me the testimony that I received.

Have you considered just tucking the garments in a drawer? Just stop wearing them, and when you feel like you're ready to put in the necessary work, make it a matter of prayer, study, meditation and practice and get yourself a testimony of the principles involved. Any part of the Gospel that doesn't bring me joy, or even conceivably might eventually lead to joy is a principle that I have obviously gotten wrong. If I can't figure it out, I put it away till some future date when I might have a better handle on it (this explains the years that passed before we held regular family home evening. At the time it just wasn't worth the shouting and tears).

Kcarp
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Kcarp » 02 Jul 2014, 19:17

No comment as to whether or not you should, I've learned a lot from other comments and will go read those links, but....

Word in the street is, new garments are coming. They will even involve cup sizes. Who woulda thunk ;)

Any who... I still wear mine. I live in az. It is not pleasant right now. I always go to parks and zoos in non garment compatible clothes cuz... I don't feel I have to. I used to think sacrificing to wear them in those conditions made me more faithful. Then up looked around, eventually I got past being judgement of those other moms who do the park, zoo etc in their tank tops, and joined then. I'm much happier. I also bought an evening dress that was not garment compatible for my husbands reunion. I felt great. I felt judged when a friend looked directly at my shoulders our whole conversation. But it didn't bother me. I also sent the picture if the dress in me to an old coworker who I confided my faith crisis in (she is catholic) and she literally laughed at me and said it was very modest and didn't know what I was talking about.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 Jul 2014, 19:56

For people who have never experienced body image issues, it is very difficult to understand how the garment can exacerbate those issues. For a lot of people, especially women, it isn't "just underwear".

Also, I personally don't like thinking of the garment as underwear. I know it is worn that way by most people, but I don't like to look at it that way. That is one of the reasons I have no problem whatsoever with people wearing it above regular underwear - another being, as I said previously, that I think it is less "defiled" that way. I think it loses it's significance (a representation of an endowment of priesthood power and authority for men AND women - a way to be clothed as priests AND priestesses when people leave the temple) when it comes to be seen as "just underwear".

I think the garment is perhaps the most obvious manifestation that women are given priesthood power and authority exactly as men are, and, while I have no problem with anyone wearing it on a limited basis if that is important in their situation, I want it to retain that association with priesthood power and authority.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jul 2014, 07:29

What does defiling the garments refer to?
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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