You are very, very kind, Ray. Of course you can quote me or outdo me.Ray Degraw wrote:I absolutely LOVE that, Tom.
Based on the experience of my second conversion, I would feel very irreverent and blasphemous to suggest that the Father needs any excuse to extend grace and mercy to His children. But our (distorted?) Pauline conception of the Father has Him demanding payment before opening the pearly gates. That's why I say that a flaw in our conception (though it's probably very useful in some ways and minds and times) is that we require the Son to make the Father complete. This thread is profoundly meaningful and true, but its meanings are vivid to me (even more clear and real, I'd say) without the classic Justice and Mercy theology of Paul, Alma, and others.katielangston wrote:Could you explain to me what you mean by "Christianity has preserved a Father who has some undesirable characteristics that are resolved only by the Son"?
Wow!Ray Degraw wrote:Those who have not accepted Christ will be judged by their own works alone, ....
By "Christ" here, you mean grace, love, and onement?
By "be judged by" here, you mean reap?
If so, could I say "Those who have not accepted grace, love, and onement will reap their own works alone"? Very scary, since my works could put me in eternal despair when I view the pain they caused. But if, on the other hand, I accept Christ (grace, love, and onement), I am, can, and will be rescued and brought from despair/darkness to joy/light.
This, to me, is the miracle. By simply believing that this Lover truly Loves me (and glimpsing just what that means to Him in terms of forgiveness, sacrifice, proxy suffering, etc.), I become softer, more loving, more perfect. Back to Ray's opening Amazement. See also the book "The Peacegiver".katielangston wrote:our BECOMING doesn't happen on its own; it doesn't happen through sheer willpower, grit, and determination; it happens through our surrendering to God
Finally, I appreciate the recent wonderfully merciful and generous thoughts on rewards.