Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

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BJE
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by BJE » 04 Jun 2019, 10:16

People do the same thing with quoting prophets out of context.

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Cadence
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Cadence » 04 Jun 2019, 11:42

BJE that is a nice interpretation. I find it interesting the Mormon mind tends to jump to sex as the most heinous thing as opposed to something more destructive.




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Roy
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Roy » 04 Jun 2019, 13:55

Curt Sunshine wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 06:29
Everyone focuses on a few things they love and ignores what they don't want to mess with trying to explain or what they view as less important.
Yes, I have noticed this in talks supporting ideas that I quite like. Any newish idea that is presented as something new and originating outside of the normal priesthood structure is likely not going to gain traction. Anything presented as an improvement or correction on what church leaders have taught is likely to meet a reflexively defensive reaction. I have noticed some influencers on the edges of the tent of Zion present ideas as though church leaders had taught this idea all along. I suppose for me this is part of knowing your audience and tailoring your presentation to them.

I also enjoy the concept that the scripture are living documents that receive new meanings and new interpretations with each passing generation to make them relevant.

I suppose a major factor in how much this bothers me is what I see as the hypocrisy. We play fast and loose with truth, accuracy, and context when it suits us while at the same time promoting ourselves as searchers and defenders of ultimate truth. When other churches and movements do this sort of thing we call it apostasy.
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Heber13
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Heber13 » 04 Jun 2019, 14:10

Cadence wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 11:42
BJE that is a nice interpretation. I find it interesting the Mormon mind tends to jump to sex as the most heinous thing as opposed to something more destructive.

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Doesn't that have a lot to do with the Puritan background at the times the church was forming? (IOW....traditions of people causing interpretations to validate their beliefs?)
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Jun 2019, 14:57

Heber13 wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 14:10
Cadence wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 11:42
BJE that is a nice interpretation. I find it interesting the Mormon mind tends to jump to sex as the most heinous thing as opposed to something more destructive.

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Doesn't that have a lot to do with the Puritan background at the times the church was forming? (IOW....traditions of people causing interpretations to validate their beliefs?)
From what I've gathered (mostly from Givens but RSR as well), Joseph's church was not very puritan at all and Joseph did not seem to hold high puritan ideals. The whole puritan thing crept in later - quite a bit later.
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nibbler
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by nibbler » 04 Jun 2019, 17:47

Roy wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 13:55
I suppose a major factor in how much this bothers me is what I see as the hypocrisy. We play fast and loose with truth, accuracy, and context when it suits us while at the same time promoting ourselves as searchers and defenders of ultimate truth. When other churches and movements do this sort of thing we call it apostasy.
I've got an example of that from this past SS. We covered the story with "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Obviously it's tricky to square that with our eternal marriage doctrine but the answer was that we have modern day revelation that clarifies the problem of the seven brothers and the wife. They weren't sealed! As we discussed this I couldn't help but think, contextually Jesus is talking to the Sadducees. Our answer doesn't make any sense in that context. I can imagine a Sadducee saying, "Wait... what?" but to us it's a neat, tidy bow to make an uncomfortable scripture say what we want it to say.
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BJE
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by BJE » 04 Jun 2019, 19:25

Cadence wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 11:42
BJE that is a nice interpretation. I find it interesting the Mormon mind tends to jump to sex as the most heinous thing as opposed to something more destructive.




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Of course that’s just my interpretation but the scriptures speak for themselves.

Other verses which indicate that leading people astray is next to murder are when Alma the younger tells about his conversion. He said.

Alma 36:13 Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell; yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God, and that I had not kept his holy commandments.
14 Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction; yea, and in fine so great had been my iniquities, that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.

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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Curt Sunshine » 04 Jun 2019, 21:03

Despite the common misinterpretation of that verse to say sexual sins are next to murder (which I believe it absolutely does not say), if you ask any average Mormon who sits in the chapel every Sunday to list the worst sins from a list of sins that includes lots of things other than "sex", I am quite positive the vast majority would ignore that verse and choose plenty of other things as worse. I think adultery would be perhaps the only sexual sin that would be in the top 10 - except for members who would add homosexual "fornication", as well.

Torture - rape (which is not purely a sexual action) - child abuse - elderly abuse - slavery - kidnapping - sex trafficking (again, not a purely sexual action) - ignoring someone who is starving and letting them die (technically not murder) - knowingly blaspheming - aggravated assault

I just brainstormed 9 other options without much thought. I think the large majority of members would not put sexual sin ahead of any of them - especially if the actual sexual sin mentioned in that chapter (fornication, since there is no indication he was married) is included in the list.

Sometimes, it is important to separate hyperbolic scriptural (mis)interpretations from what most members would say in a real conversation about an issue.
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Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Heber13
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Heber13 » 04 Jun 2019, 22:25

Curt Sunshine wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 21:03
Sometimes, it is important to separate hyperbolic scriptural (mis)interpretations from what most members would say in a real conversation about an issue.
yes...this! +1

Sometimes people are trying to make a point, sometimes they get carried away with feelings, sometimes they like to make bold (even if irrational) claims.

Who am I to keep them from worshipping how they want. I don't have to agree with their opinions.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Tica
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Re: Misquoting Scripture w/o Context

Post by Tica » 05 Jun 2019, 07:07

dande48 wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 18:07
I don't think it's intentional. I think most GAs, members, etc believe that if it supports their central message, and helps people to "come unto Christ" (however/whatever that means), it must be true... without checking context. It's not really what I'd call deciet. It's seeing evidence in everything to support what you already believe.
I mostly agree with this. Also, I am no religious scholar, but it seems to me that prooftexting and different interpretations of "truth" may be one of the reasons there are so many different religious sects in the first place... sects that all claim the same book(s) of scripture as the word of God. They just don't agree about what the word of God means.

I have currently landed in a place where I habitually read the context, but even then I don't often feel sure about the truth of my own ideas and interpretations. I do think that, proof texting or not, one viable purpose of scripture is self reflection and self improvement. Maybe the lesson I take away from a scripture is different than someone else's, but if it is for self betterment, how much does that matter? When doctrine is being defined that is another matter though...

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