Tonight was hard

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
Jaxzmin801
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Apr 2019, 13:05

Tonight was hard

Post by Jaxzmin801 » 26 Apr 2019, 20:50

Hi, I've been lurking for awhile too. I have to say I appreciate everyone's thoughts on here and it had done much to sustain me, but tonight was hard. I've been struggling for the last year. The funny thing is, I quit going to church when I was 17, then over the last 5 years my husband and I have worked with various bishops and we were just sealed last summer, us and our children. I worked so hard to get to this spiritual "pinnacle". Now I find I'm "in the club" so to speak and I'm suffocating.
I've tried to talk to my husband about it before but tonight, he literally said he wasn't going to talk about my faith issues anymore because it's too negative. I get it, he's worried that I'm suddenly anti, or afraid of what my faith crisis will mean. But what good is religion that disconnects us from communication in our marriage?
I guess I just need to get some things out there. I do believe in a Heavenly Father, and a Heavenly Mother. I believe in Christ. I believe in bringing children up in a way that supports loving others, and being moral. I love service. I love community.
Here's what gets my goat, being given the cold shoulder in my calling because the president didn't like that I wouldn't turn in my receipt. Listening to people gossip about the inactive sister because she doesn't want to be contacted. Spending hours discussing table cloths, and not acknowledging that we have single struggling mothers, and our time would be much better spent helping them.
It's not that I expect everyone to be all loving all the time. I did have a great example in my oldest brother, one of the main reasons I came back to the church. He just loved. He loved people who didn't go to church the same way he loved people who did. I guess that's what surprised me most, I worked through a lot of my historical issues before going to the temple, but notes being on the other side watching people get overlooked in favor of statistics has been. . . Disheartening. Also the subtle sexist behaviour, from the women!
The idea that I can be so passive aggressively reminded of my place by other women just irks me, and I know I drive them crazy because I don't play the game.
Anyway, I know this is long, but so is my list of things I need to consider moving forward. Thank you all for being who you are and making me feel like it's ok to question, it's ok to not have the answers, and it's ok to talk about it for crying out loud!

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dande48
Posts: 1443
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by dande48 » 26 Apr 2019, 22:37

Hi Jaxzmin!

Happy to have a new voice in here. We're all over the spectrum, but I've found it's a wonderful place to bounce ideas and hear a variety of perspectives. I look forward to hearing yours.
Jaxzmin801 wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 20:50
But what good is religion that disconnects us from communication in our marriage?
IMHO, I think sometimes good marriage requires selective communication. Or at the very least, tactful communication. I think one of the biggest and most harmful myths of marriage, is that it's supposed to fill all our needs for emotional support and intimacy. But humans are incredibly complex; everyone has a backstory as deep and conveluted as our own. For every person, there are some things we just don't want to think about. We frame our reality not by what's "objectively real", but by what we need to believe to survive. When someone says or does anything to jepordize those "reality walls", they can really go on the defensive.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's important to be empathetic and careful.

It sounds like a lot of your struggles have to do with "humans being human". I get that. I'm not a fan of the statistics game, but for a lot of people, seeing numbers (any numbers) go up gives them courage to carry on. With the judgement, I think it's because some people aren't ok with being "not ok". We often get down on ourselves in the Church, and pointing out the shortcomings in others... well, it's stupid, but it does help to dull the pain of our own. Sort of like drinking in order to forget that you're ashamed of your drinking (to paraphrase "the Little Prince"). It drives me nuts at church... but it's ok to feel frustrated.

Welcome to the group!
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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mom3
Posts: 3996
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by mom3 » 27 Apr 2019, 02:28

Welcome - We can't wait to hear more from you. Jump in, share, search - You help us grow, too.

We nickname this the Island of Misfit Toys. We are glad to add you to our ranks.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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DarkJedi
Posts: 6741
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by DarkJedi » 27 Apr 2019, 05:19

Welcome. I know all about the spouse communication complexity. We're supposed to be eternal companions, but then there are things we can't talk about or share with each other. :crazy: It does help to come here where we can talk honestly about almost anything. So pull up a chair and relax - we're open 24/7.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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thegreythinker
Posts: 14
Joined: 09 Apr 2019, 17:44

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by thegreythinker » 27 Apr 2019, 17:14

Welcome! I'm excited to see what new ideas and point of views you bring to this site.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1728
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by Minyan Man » 27 Apr 2019, 20:37

Welcome Jaxzmin801, I like what you said in your intro.
Jaxzmin801 wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 20:50
...I did have a great example in my oldest brother, one of the main reasons I came back to the church. He just loved. He loved people who didn't go to church the same way he loved people who did.
Sometimes, one good example can overcome an entire ward of bad or indifferent examples. You used the word
did
.
Am I reading too much in your statement?

Keep coming back & contribute. We need your voice.

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rrosskopf
Posts: 46
Joined: 07 Apr 2019, 06:52

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by rrosskopf » 28 Apr 2019, 01:13

It all comes down to what is important. We all have our own lists of what is important, and what is not, and which things are more important than others. To the degree we have different experiences, our appraisals will be distinct. And to the degree that we can have new experiences, that appraisal will change over time. The church represents one form of homogenization. To the extent that we share the same experiences in regards to our spiritual beliefs, we will be united in our values. People are often categorized as to whether or not they are a true blue believer, but such a designation doesn't adequately describe the individual nuances.
There is the convert, who after extensive searching finds the pure wonder of the LDS church. I knew a man who converted in his seventies. He appreciated so much what is normally taken for granted. He couldn't get his fill of the truth; he enrolled in every class at the Institute building. He had been addicted to alcohol and tobacco. He finally found the faith to live without these substances.
Then there are those who are children of converts. They often lack that bolt of lightning that initiates them into their parents' reality, and don't see the wonder that their parents saw. Some trust their parents to such a degree that they act in every way like the true convert, without the benefit of the foundational experiences of their parents. It is enough that their parents had the experiences. Too often they are fascinated by the unknown, and follow their curiosity out of the church and into a decandent culture.
Each one of us tries to find our place in society, and the church is a society all its own. The three witnesses had marvelous testimonies of the church and of the Book of Mormon, but they envisioned for themselves better roles in the church, roles beyond just being a witness. They thought they deserved special considerations, and were perhaps a little too full of themselves. Sadly for them, the Lord's purpose has never been to inflate the egos of the members. Their opinions on church matters were not held in great esteem, and they became offended, and refused to humble themselves.
In the end, humility is the door through which everyone must pass, and the path which everyone must follow thereafter. Those that don't find humility very satisfying may not prosper in the church.

Jaxzmin801
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Apr 2019, 13:05

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by Jaxzmin801 » 02 May 2019, 21:06

Thank you all for saying hello,
Sometimes, one good example can overcome an entire ward of bad or indifferent examples. You used the word
did
.
Am I reading too much in your statement?

No, Minyan Man, you are not reading too much into this. My oldest brother passed away about 5 years ago. How he lived his life and his passing are hugely significant to why and what I love about the church and being a member of it. You are right that his example has carried me through some pretty difficult times with being a member. This forum I'd probably the closest thing I have found to being to call him up and say " hey, what would you do in this situation. . " so for that I thank all of you.

AmyJ
Posts: 921
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by AmyJ » 03 May 2019, 05:28

Hi,
Thanks for being here with us.

I can relate on challenges in marriage - it can be very disheartening and tricky. At the end of the day, Charity, Compassion and Courage are your best bet I think. Charity in thought towards your spouse and the women who see things differently, Compassion in action (it might look like you create your own ministry to some of those sisters and spend less time in meetings, it may be connecting to those sisters who you feel are missing the point, it will probably look like something else entirely), and the Courage to center yourself in Jesus Christ in your own way while acknowledging that others will see things differently.

You might want also to look up some of the writings by Chieko Okazaki - she has several thoughts about how to respectfully and compassionately question others to bring more depth to a conversation (which is what I think you are asking for when you contrast the tablecloths with the single sisters). I found her book, "Lighten Up" to be very helpful for me and how I think.

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SilentDawning
Posts: 7229
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Tonight was hard

Post by SilentDawning » 03 May 2019, 06:23

Jaxzmin801 wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 20:50
I guess I just need to get some things out there. I do believe in a Heavenly Father, and a Heavenly Mother. I believe in Christ. I believe in bringing children up in a way that supports loving others, and being moral. I love service. I love community.
Here's what gets my goat, being given the cold shoulder in my calling because the president didn't like that I wouldn't turn in my receipt. Listening to people gossip about the inactive sister because she doesn't want to be contacted. Spending hours discussing table cloths, and not acknowledging that we have single struggling mothers, and our time would be much better spent helping them.
It's not that I expect everyone to be all loving all the time.
I left church service for the last 5-10 years after too much crap to put up with, like what you mention above. But then I got new crap from the community. It was much easier to handle because the people in the community were not claiming to be part of a divine organization, there was more flexibility to pick and choose what I would do -- I wasn't conscripted like you get in the LDS church.

But it's there too. It's everywhere.

So, it's better to learn to persist and do your best in spite of the arrogance, interpersonal problems, misplaced attention. If it gets to the point it's causing major interference with your happiness, then make adjustments. It might mean doing your calling well but minimizing meetings. It might mean learning to rock the boat without sinking the ship. It might mean more minimal callings and putting your service into other organizations.

I guess I want to share that these inconsistencies, interpersonal problems, abuses, etcetera -- they are everywhere, in every organization.

Not to minimize your angst.

Regarding your husband, I'd leave your faith crises alone with him. My wife is that way too. This site is a great place to develop independent of a spouse, while still staying as connected as possible...
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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