Name of The Church - Version 152

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7077
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by Heber13 » 03 Oct 2018, 12:21

nibbler wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 09:39
In my ward, the Sunday after the announcement we dedicated a large portion of PH to discussing Nelson's desire to use the proper name of the church. Mormons gonna Morm and all but a part of that discussion was letting the group know that as members we shouldn't be saying Mormon anymore, we should follow the counsel of a prophet of god.
I can't really help it...I'm me...I'm gonna react how I react...because...such policing only makes me want to say "mormon" more often in the presence of those who I know are trying to be self-appointed spiritual safety officers.

If nothing else...I want to make the point to everyone that there are certainly more important things in life to worry about.

I just can't help myself.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4043
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by nibbler » 03 Oct 2018, 13:44

I was just thinking out loud, trying to take something as I see as a negative (great, now people are going to get onto me for saying Mormon) as something that could change the culture long term as something that could be a net positive for some.

We correct people so much, make sure they say church of Christ, or whatever, and in 20 years we talk about following Christ and obeying commandments more than we talk about following and obeying leaders of the church.

An annoying thing to be sure, but it played its role in turning the ship.

Unless we hear more about the name change during conference I think this one has already died on the vine.
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

Roy
Posts: 5515
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by Roy » 03 Oct 2018, 14:43

nibbler wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 13:44
Unless we hear more about the name change during conference I think this one has already died on the vine.
I agree. Changing the "nickname" of the church would need to be a near constant drumbeat and become the signature push of President Nelson's administration. I believe that many organizations with "Mormon" in their title are in a "wait and see" pattern - not going out right away to make expensive changes in signage etc. but not digging their feet by refusing to make the change either.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7077
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by Heber13 » 03 Oct 2018, 15:53

We currently have the missionaries on their way to our house.

A friend of my step-daughter at school came up to her and said:
Hey, aren't you mormon? I want the missionaries to teach me. How does that get arranged?"
So...we set it up and it will happen in the next hour in our home.

So...did the name "mormon" matter in this situation? Should we correct our friends who ask about it?

I don't think so.

This friend does not get religion at home, and doesn't know much about our beliefs but has heard some good things about how we stress family and how we serve others and how we have fun activities but have high standards and are good clean values. She wants that.

The name of the church doesn't make as much of a difference as how we are living our lives and others see it and associate it with a church name. If the church had nothing to do with Christ...I think it would be a deal breaker for her. But if it is about Christ and the bible AND these other things she is looking for...that is what attracted her to ask.

She'll get baptized or she won't. But it won't be based on the official name or the nickname, it will be based on the people and the feelings while studying about it and going to church. Call it what you will...it's good when it feels good.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4043
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by nibbler » 08 Oct 2018, 04:57

Roy wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 14:43
nibbler wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 13:44
Unless we hear more about the name change during conference I think this one has already died on the vine.
I agree. Changing the "nickname" of the church would need to be a near constant drumbeat and become the signature push of President Nelson's administration. I believe that many organizations with "Mormon" in their title are in a "wait and see" pattern - not going out right away to make expensive changes in signage etc. but not digging their feet by refusing to make the change either.
There you go. It's the signature push.

Quite often right before conference I'll hear a story that goes something like this:

I talked to a coworker about how my church would be having a conference and we'd get an opportunity to hear from a prophet of god. My coworker said, "Wow, you have a prophet of god. That's amazing. What have they said?" I was embarrassed to admit that I couldn't think of anything they had said and my coworker said, "You mean to tell me you have a prophet of god and you don't even listen to them?"

We then usually take time to list off things that the prophet has said recently but the moral of the story is - make sure you listen to conference.

If you listened to conference you'd be able to proudly respond to the coworker, "The prophet has revealed that it is a victory for Satan when people call us Mormons."

"You mean to tell me you have a prophet of god and..."
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7077
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by Heber13 » 08 Oct 2018, 07:08

I guess, based on conference, this issue is not going away.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
dande48
Posts: 1443
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by dande48 » 08 Oct 2018, 07:22

It became pretty apparent to me, that this push isn't so much about calling us "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints", as it is about eradicating the "Mormon" label. The push was to use "Latter-Day Saints" to describe us, as the prophet did repeatedly. "Latter-Day Saints" still does not have the name of Christ in it. Not to mention, the TCATQ doesn't have "Christ" in its name either.

It feels very similar to what the Community of Christ did back in 2001. I wonder if, with all the changes being done to the curriculum (which, to be fair, seems more Christ focused), we will distance ourselves from the Book of Mormon, much like they did. I've got the feeling we'll be reading from the scriptures directly quite a bit less than before. Do you think this is a re-branding overhaul?
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

User avatar
bridget_night
Posts: 871
Joined: 02 Mar 2009, 12:15

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by bridget_night » 08 Oct 2018, 08:23

“Anyone who comes to know the man Mormon, through the reading and pondering of his words, anyone who reads this precious trove of history which was assembled and preserved in large measure by him, will come to know that Mormon is not a word of disrepute, but that it represents the greatest good—that good which is of God.”
-Gordon B Hinkley

“The church’s name is not negotiable When the savior clearly states what the name of his church should be, and even precedes his declaration with, ‘Thus shall my church be called,' he is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”

-Russell M Nelson

Which is it?

What bothered me most was when President Nelson said:" By allowing the nicknames of the Church to be used, adopted or even sponsored they have offended God and given a major victory to Satan!! Isn't this like throwing Hinckley and Monson under the bus? So was "Meet the Mormons" inspired by Satan? Very confusing. Mark 9:39 38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 39But Jesus replied, “Do not stop him. No one who performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. 40For whoever is not against us is for us.… Isn't Jesus telling us that you do not have to even be Mormon/cojclds to be considered a follower of him.
Attachments
43234094_10217260848582447_479247912769945600_n.jpg
43234094_10217260848582447_479247912769945600_n.jpg (54.52 KiB) Viewed 315 times

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4043
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by nibbler » 08 Oct 2018, 08:31

bridget_night wrote:
08 Oct 2018, 08:23
“The church’s name is not negotiable When the savior clearly states what the name of his church should be, and even precedes his declaration with, ‘Thus shall my church be called,' he is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”

-Russell M Nelson
God chose to become offended.

:angel: :angel:
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

SamBee
Posts: 5328
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: Name of The Church - Version 152

Post by SamBee » 08 Oct 2018, 08:34

The RLDS/CoC name change was I believe more understandable.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Post Reply