Pope Francis Message of Healing

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mom3
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Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by mom3 » 20 Aug 2018, 13:38

It's long but if you have 10 minutes it's worth the read.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Minyan Man
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by Minyan Man » 20 Aug 2018, 21:11

The message is heartfelt & meaningful only when it brings about real change in the organization. It hasn't so far.
It would be interesting to see what the membership think about this problem & what the solution should be.
I'm surprised there isn't an open revolt.

Would allowing clergy to marry go anywhere in solving this problem? I believe it should.

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SamBee
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by SamBee » 20 Aug 2018, 22:03

Minyan Man wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 21:11
The message is heartfelt & meaningful only when it brings about real change in the organization. It hasn't so far.
It would be interesting to see what the membership think about this problem & what the solution should be.
I'm surprised there isn't an open revolt.

Would allowing clergy to marry go anywhere in solving this problem? I believe it should.
Something like a third of Catholic priests (incl. those in training) leave to marry women.

There are two things going on here-
* Chastity. Which ties in with what you say.
* Power. A lot of child abuse is tied up in this and does not tie up with this.

In the Middle Ages it was common for priests to have liasons with women, and it was overlooked, rightly or wrongly but their offspring was not recognized.

I think this message comes too late. If Satan had a long term plan to undermine Christianity in the last days, I think something like this would be part of it. Raping children. Destroying the innocent. For most people, this is worse than stealing the collection plate or being an alcoholic. I can think of no better way of destroying trust, defeating Christianity and removing it from society... and of course negating the good it does in charity etc.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by dande48 » 21 Aug 2018, 06:32

This letter came out in response to the recent and massive Catholic clergy sexual abuse scandal. It's damage control. It's meant to maintain the authority of the Catholic Church, and help them distance themselves and move past those allegations. I feel very skeptical and cynical towards this response, despite the message being a positive one.

It's interesting to see the parallels between the Catholics and the LDS, in the leader's response to scandal. In fairness, I am grateful we haven't seen anything close to this in the LDS Church. But we have been touched with very similar issues, such as the abuse of power for sexual advantage we've seen in both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, as well as the period sex scandal, like we've seen with Bishop. Our responses have been very similar:

1. We completely deny it.
2. We attack the source of the allegations, denouncing them as "anti"
3. We admit that they happened, but take strong steps to distance ourselves from the scandal.

And interestingly enough, those responses aren't in any particular order. Despite them being contradictory, we can often see them happening all at once (such as in the case of Bishop).
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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Heber13
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by Heber13 » 21 Aug 2018, 10:31

dande48 wrote:
21 Aug 2018, 06:32
1. We completely deny it.
2. We attack the source of the allegations, denouncing them as "anti"
3. We admit that they happened, but take strong steps to distance ourselves from the scandal.
Hopefully we are learning how to handle things. Cover ups make things worse, for sure.

There is a difficult line to walk, since the justice system can't always be trusted either. But ultimately...it can't be ignored.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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mom3
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by mom3 » 21 Aug 2018, 11:36

A couple key things I liked

*This didn't happen on his watch. Yet he chose to step into the space and speak.

*There are definitely imperfections in the words, for me as a person, I appreciate when someone makes an effort to amend a hurt.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 21 Aug 2018, 12:41

I also think it is important to view it in comparison to what other church leaders are saying.

I read a statement a couple of days ago by a Catholic Bishop here in America in which he lamented the abuse and, ultimately, concluded that the solution was to rid the Catholic Church and humanity of homosexuality (not just homosexuals but homosexuality). That level of ignorance should be staggering. Unfortunately, it is not.

Having said that, I agree this is much too little, much too late. The former Archbishop of Australia (and then Vatican Treasurer) is facing charges of sexual abuse of minors. He was released from his duties at the Vatican to defend himself. Innocent until proven guilty, but the issue goes way up to the people immediately surrounding the Pope.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: Pope Francis Message of Healing

Post by SamBee » 21 Aug 2018, 16:01

Ireland used to be an extremely Catholic country (at least outside Dublin and the bit still occupied by the British), but it is noticeable how much the child abuse scandals have undermined RCism there within the past twenty years.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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