Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching?

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SilentDawning
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Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching?

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Apr 2018, 13:45

Nibbler said this phrase in the subject line in another post and it kept coming back to me.

Today epitomized this. They changed the name from home teaching to ministering, but they used the same guilt trip and said we need to "minister" to everyone in the next quarter. The word "visit" kept being used as a synonym for "ministering" in the sentence. Talked about why we don't do it, said we're not a church of volunteers, but a church of covenants, and with covenants comes obligations, and said they hoped we were feeling a little bit guilty.

I was actually disappointed. They may have made it easier to feel successful with the new program's emphasis on finding out needs, and trying to meet them, but I think there might have been a bit of training in how to motivate brethren in ways that is more positive.

I feel a bit deflated about the whole thing now, unfortunately.

Your experience? Does it feel the same? Or do you feel like you married Rachel but woke up next to Leah.
Last edited by SilentDawning on 22 Apr 2018, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by Curt Sunshine » 22 Apr 2018, 14:35

The actions and discussions in our ward have been great so far.

They even have said we are in a bit of a holding pattern until the new EQP is called and can coordinate properly with the RS President to make new assignments for everyone.

Seriously, that is major progress.
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Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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dande48
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by dande48 » 22 Apr 2018, 15:59

I feel like old habits die hard. People are still trying to figure out how to be the most righteous and obedient. Give it time...
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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DarkJedi
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Apr 2018, 16:03

I think my ward, and stake actually, are much like Curt's. Our discussion have been pretty good. We talked about a more holistic view today - taking care of more than just physical or spiritual needs but social/psychological needs. IN a nutshell, just plain being friends.Visits were not mentioned once. I honestly expected more resistance than I'm seeing - people apparently like not having to report. And I am very optimistic we'll see more good in our ward. I will add that one of our stake mantras to EQPs/HPGLs over the past couple years has been that we are not travel agents of guilt, so that may have helped.

I agree this was sort of sprung on people without prior training. But as far as training goes, it's coming and coming in boatloads. In the last couple weeks lots of stuff has been added to LDS.org on the subject. https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering?lang=eng https://providentliving.lds.org/leader/ ... s?lang=eng
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Apr 2018, 16:54

DarkJedi wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 16:03
I think my ward, and stake actually, are much like Curt's. Our discussion have been pretty good. We talked about a more holistic view today - taking care of more than just physical or spiritual needs but social/psychological needs. IN a nutshell, just plain being friends.Visits were not mentioned once. I honestly expected more resistance than I'm seeing - people apparently like not having to report. And I am very optimistic we'll see more good in our ward. I will add that one of our stake mantras to EQPs/HPGLs over the past couple years has been that we are not travel agents of guilt, so that may have helped.

I agree this was sort of sprung on people without prior training. But as far as training goes, it's coming and coming in boatloads. In the last couple weeks lots of stuff has been added to LDS.org on the subject. https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering?lang=eng https://providentliving.lds.org/leader/ ... s?lang=eng
The message I got was the one in the subject line, unfortunately. Home teaching but without any reporting. My plan is to email everyone and ask if I can come over to get to know them, or talk on the phone.

I think the purpose of it needs to be spelled out more clearly too -- anyone seen the purpose clearly stated?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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DarkJedi
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Apr 2018, 17:03

SilentDawning wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 16:54
I think the purpose of it needs to be spelled out more clearly too -- anyone seen the purpose clearly stated?
From the FP letter:
Ministering is Christlike caring for others and helping meet their spiritual and temporal needs.
Pretty clear to me, but in my experience with some no amount of training will help them understand that very simple statement.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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nibbler
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by nibbler » 23 Apr 2018, 06:17

DarkJedi wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 17:03
From the FP letter:
Ministering is Christlike caring for others and helping meet their spiritual and temporal needs.
Pretty clear to me, but in my experience with some no amount of training will help them understand that very simple statement.
It's a simple statement but I think the challenge is that different people interpret that statement differently. It could mean:

1) Helping people meet what they feel to be their spiritual and temporal needs.

Or what I see more often than not.

2) Telling people specific things that they need to do in order to meet what leaders feel to be their spiritual and temporal needs. This is your spiritual need and I'm here to set goals for you to do it and to follow up on how well you're doing them. Maybe each corner of the vineyard is different in this regard but I see quite a bit of "I know what's best for you" in our ministering.

- - -

On subject. It's far too early to tell and I'm more than willing to give it time but so far:
1) Both the EQ and RS have the exact same companionship and family assignments as before.
2) We're using all the same rhetoric for ministering.
  • You need to visit them in their homes.
  • Sometimes you need to visit them more than once per month.
  • We share the FP message.
I believe there was even explicit instruction from leaders that ministering didn't have to take the form of an in home visit and that it didn't have to be a message. I know there was clear communication that the FP message was being discontinued... but I heard what I heard. We are creatures of habit.

I've said this in other treads, the ministering program has been presented as home teaching on steroids in my area. More of the same with an emphasis on more.

A few weeks ago when the news was fresh we talked about it during PH opening exercises. I got the sense that people were uncertain and looking towards leadership for direction. I suspect that we've defaulted to the home teaching program but under a microscope because we don't know what else to do.

It's kind of sad in a way. During the chatter someone read a statement from RMN that mentioned how this new program would operate more by revelation but we immediately took to looking to the leaders to tell us what to do... in some ways the opposite of what Nelson was suggesting. Human nature I guess.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
— Henry David Thoreau

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dande48
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by dande48 » 23 Apr 2018, 06:23

nibbler wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 06:17
On subject. It's far too early to tell and I'm more than willing to give it time but so far:
1) Both the EQ and RS have the exact same companionship and family assignments as before.
2) We're using all the same rhetoric for ministering.
  • You need to visit them in their homes.
  • Sometimes you need to visit them more than once per month.
  • We share the FP message.
My wife just got called as "Ministering Coordinator". One of the changes I've seen, at least in my ward (and I'm not sure if this is policy), is that couples can now be given "Ministering Assignments". They are also no longer separate entities, where everyone has a HT, and the ladies get an extra VT. NNow it's all the same thing, with the same responsibilities. Also, didn't RMN do away with the FP message?

It's still a work in progress, just like with combining the HP and EQ. The EQ has been asked to reorganized to accommodate all the old folk we're now taking in, and the HP won't join us until that's taken care of.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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nibbler
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching?

Post by nibbler » 23 Apr 2018, 06:45

I like the idea of erasing the lines between the EQ and RS, making sure everyone is covered by someone in either group and having less overlap.

It would be nice if we took the approach of allowing people to do things however they'd like instead of presenting one model for everyone to follow.

E.g. if you want an in-home visit with a message here are the people that are willing to do regular in-home visits with a message.

If you want to opt out of visits and visiting you can.

If you want to to choose your companion you can.

Etc.

In other words, let the people own the program, not the traditional method of HT/VT where the program owns the people.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
— Henry David Thoreau

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DarkJedi
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Re: Home Teaching is Over, Long Live Home Teaching!

Post by DarkJedi » 23 Apr 2018, 07:09

nibbler wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 06:17
DarkJedi wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 17:03
From the FP letter:
Ministering is Christlike caring for others and helping meet their spiritual and temporal needs.
Pretty clear to me, but in my experience with some no amount of training will help them understand that very simple statement.
It's a simple statement but I think the challenge is that different people interpret that statement differently. It could mean:

1) Helping people meet what they feel to be their spiritual and temporal needs.

Or what I see more often than not.

2) Telling people specific things that they need to do in order to meet what leaders feel to be their spiritual and temporal needs. This is your spiritual need and I'm here to set goals for you to do it and to follow up on how well you're doing them. Maybe each corner of the vineyard is different in this regard but I see quite a bit of "I know what's best for you" in our ministering.

- - -

On subject. It's far too early to tell and I'm more than willing to give it time but so far:
1) Both the EQ and RS have the exact same companionship and family assignments as before.
2) We're using all the same rhetoric for ministering.
  • You need to visit them in their homes.
  • Sometimes you need to visit them more than once per month.
  • We share the FP message.
I believe there was even explicit instruction from leaders that ministering didn't have to take the form of an in home visit and that it didn't have to be a message. I know there was clear communication that the FP message was being discontinued... but I heard what I heard. We are creatures of habit.

I've said this in other treads, the ministering program has been presented as home teaching on steroids in my area. More of the same with an emphasis on more.

A few weeks ago when the news was fresh we talked about it during PH opening exercises. I got the sense that people were uncertain and looking towards leadership for direction. I suspect that we've defaulted to the home teaching program but under a microscope because we don't know what else to do.

It's kind of sad in a way. During the chatter someone read a statement from RMN that mentioned how this new program would operate more by revelation but we immediately took to looking to the leaders to tell us what to do... in some ways the opposite of what Nelson was suggesting. Human nature I guess.
I agree with you Nibbler, and I think that's where the training is going to come into play. My SP said the Seventy got 14 hours of training on the new program and that's starting to trickle down. He did say much of it is on the links posted above. He has been to a full Saturday already and is sharing what he has gotten as best as he can - he has had a training with stake council and bishoprics and has shared stuff online (mostly references to the LDS.org stuff) as sort of "homework." It'll take a bit for this to trickle down to everybody and there will be bumps in the road (and probably some resistance for some people) like there always is with change. In the end I think we'll be better off.

BTW, there is no FP message anymore and the VT message went away a couple months ago - precursors to the change. I really do think the Q15 has spent a lot of time on this and has tried to foresee and avoid the pitfalls. Hopefully no First Order forms to carry on the work of the former Empire.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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