Women and Religion

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
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Re: Women and Religion

Post by SamBee » 11 Jan 2018, 14:45

TataniaAvalon wrote:
10 Jan 2016, 09:25
I came across an image on Facebook that made me want to weep. It was a series of umbrellas each getting smaller. The largest was Christ. The next was the husband with protect family and provide for family under it. The smallest umbrella was labeled wife with children, managers of home underneath it and the whole thing labeled the natural order of the household. This was shared by one of my TBM friends. I can't express the pain I felt when I saw that. What a damaging teaching. The women are only good as wives and for their reproductive organs. Why must the wife be under the husband? Why not on the same line if we are supposed to be equal partners? The fact that women are supposed to be subordinate to their husbands is alive and well in the church.
I know. That's not right my friend. 😐
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Re: Women and Religion

Post by DancingCarrot » 11 Jan 2018, 15:09

To the OP, I don't think there's as a big of a bridge between the author's experience and the LDS woman's experience, and the largest possibility could be because women aren't in the ministry in the LDS church as much as they are in other churches. I think the Child ghost is quite common, however. I also think the Temptress is experienced in our church, but somewhat less so. Garments make fashion choices limited for women, and garment-wearers make up most of the adult, active women. Therefore some of the chatter around women's bodies dies down a little bit. But heaven help the woman who doesn't abide by the fashion expectations of garment lines.

As to the phenomenon where women are more hostile towards each other than men are to women, I think it's most likely a result of being invalidated and patronized by men in leadership positions, especially at church. It's a defense mechanism called displacement: you're being ignored or patronized, however you have no recourse for effective action, therefore you take it out on those around you. The most classic example out there is the man who gets mistreated by his boss and deals with it by mistreating his family. It happens in a lot of situations, however, it's not an excuse to dismiss the cause of feminism.

I think that if you're unable to listen to someone talk about their issues without bringing up your issues and to demand that your issues be given equal weight before you validate their position, then you're being incredibly tone deaf and defensive. Rights, human decency, fairness, equality - these things aren't pieces of a pie that decrease your share if someone else receives them, too. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I had a manager consistently bemoan the fact that workplace sexual harassment policies have made it impossible for him to compliment a woman co-worker's appearance without fear of lawsuit. I think that if that's the biggest sacrifice for him, as a man, to have to make to help ensure that women aren't harassed in the workplace then so be it. Also, if that's a sacrifice, then that's a pretty good life, my friend! :lol: Additionally, I would cite the growing financial need for women to be earning incomes for their families as a facet of the economy, not simply a result of feminists.

If some women don't want to be in leadership positions, that's fine. But stay out of the way of women who do. If some women don't want to stay at home raising children or even after they leave the home, that's fine. But stay out of the way of women who do. If some men think they know better what God wants for me, that's fine. But stay out of my way.
It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live. -Dumbledore

Roll away your stone, I'll roll away mine. Together we can see what we will find. -Mumford & Sons

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Re: Women and Religion

Post by Heber13 » 11 Jan 2018, 15:12

DancingCarrot wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 15:09
If some women don't want to be in leadership positions, that's fine. But stay out of the way of women who do. If some women don't want to stay at home raising children or even after they leave the home, that's fine. But stay out of the way of women who do. If some men think they know better what God wants for me, that's fine. But stay out of my way.
Agreed. Well said. :thumbup:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Re: Women and Religion

Post by AmyJ » 12 Jan 2018, 06:48

I tend to give a lot of comments at church. I try not to monopolize the lessons, but sometimes I am sure it happens. I hate the silence of crickets.

One Gospel Doctrine lesson my husband and I wound up sitting by one of the counselors in the stake presidency. We didn't know him very well - I think I knew his name and position, but I am not sure my husband even knew that much.

We wound up doing group discussion with this man, and I made a lot of comments. At the close of class, my husband pointed out that I had probably made too many comments (anti-cricket you know), so I turned and offered a mini-apology to this member of the presidency. He turned to include my husband and myself, and said that he valued the comments of women - some of the best counsel he ever got was by listening to comments from his beloved wife. Through the years this has always stayed with me because I did not expect it.

My husband and I do a decent job living our lives as a partnership in raising our family. He handles what he can, and I handle what I can, and our resources are enhanced to get things done, or it doesn't get done and we figure it out. My husband is not comfortable with the traditional concept of feminist - ghost #1 I think. In the last 5 years though, when we talk about it (I describe myself as a feminist in that I feel that there is work to be done to treat women fairly - including equal pay for equal amount of work) he always winds up agreeing with me. I point out regularly to him that it does not make sense to me that living men can be sealed to multiple women while living women can only be sealed to one man. I am not trying to argue or demand explanations (I have my theories). At first he was very defensive, but now he understands I just cite it as a policy that does not make sense to me, and that I am not casting rocks at a glass wall.

I think his biggest struggle is that I don't and refuse to fit into traditional conceptions of roles especially socially. Trying to bake gives me anxiety. I think asking me to wield a curling iron is a bad idea with my lack of fine motor skills and spatial deficits. I will be as tactful and respectful as I can - but I don't have it in me to be quiet just because. I also have this uncomfortable habit of getting to the heart of the matter from an unusual perspective over and over again. I know he loves me in part because I am not conventional - but I also know his life is not easy because I am unconventional.

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