Just how necessary is all this?

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nibbler
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Re: Just how necessary is all this?

Post by nibbler » 31 May 2020, 07:50

How does one measure spirituality?

We attempt to measure spirituality but one of the fruits of that effort is putting the cart before the horse. Conditioning that leads us to believe someone isn't spiritual unless they're checking the boxes.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

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DarkJedi
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Re: Just how necessary is all this?

Post by DarkJedi » 31 May 2020, 12:54

SilentDawning wrote:
31 May 2020, 07:04
I think the driver of change back to business (pronounced busy-ness) in this case will be what the church sees in its health metrics. There are the time-honored metrics of % of endowed members with an active TR, tithing and donations levels, new member baptisms, etcetera -- when theses start slipping this will be an indicator to the leaders that things need to change. These measures are believed to also indicate the spirituality of the members -- and they may well suffer if our church services stop for too long.
I don't have real hard evidence, but I was privy to some data before I was released from the high council. At the time it did not appear that tithing had dropped off significantly (at least that couldn't be attributed to unemployment), and TR interviews were being done virtually. Our SP said he had a report that our missionaries, teaching via social media/video, had 100 people they have been teaching within our stake that were progressing toward baptism. I am aware of one in my ward that has a scheduled upcoming baptism (he had been taking the discussions prior to the pandemic). It's possible the metrics will drop, but only those in leadership positions will have access to it and they likely won't share the negatives.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Just how necessary is all this?

Post by DarkJedi » 31 May 2020, 13:00

Minyan Man wrote:
31 May 2020, 07:49
SilentDawning wrote:
31 May 2020, 07:04
-- and they may well suffer if our church services stop for too long.
They may suffer when some current Missionaries request to go home instead of sitting in the apartment all day.
Or, future Missionaries delay submitting applications.
I'm not at all sure about those submitting applications. If it were my own kid I'd advise them to wait a bit but that wouldn't necessarily mean they would. As part of the pandemic we did have three in our area return early. One was close to the end and he was directly released. Of the other two, one had been out about a year and the other just a few month and both had the opportunity to choose whether or not to be reassigned stateside. The one who had been out longer chose not to, the other one is being reassigned. I know that's a small sample and anecdotal but I think it's a very tough time to be a missionary.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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DarkJedi
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Re: Just how necessary is all this?

Post by DarkJedi » 31 May 2020, 13:10

I will say that I probably would have gone to the ward Memorial Day picnic this year. I don't go every year, and sometimes just because I don't feel like it because it's lame. It is however one of the two "main events" our ward has annually (the other being the Christmas party which I also sometimes skip). Other than that I can't say I've really missed anything - and I'm not whining about the picnic, I could take or leave it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Cadence
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Re: Just how necessary is all this?

Post by Cadence » 03 Jun 2020, 06:32

Any organization will impose more and more hoops to jump through in an attempt to squeeze a little more compliance from its members. We see this in many corporations where middle management sends down edicts of conformance, to justify the need for their existence. The church is no different. The more you get someone to buy into your authority, the more your authority is needed.

Without the constant reinforcement at church of how important the leaders are, we may find people become less willing to conform to their edicts. People may realize they are doing just fine not jumping through hoops.


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Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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