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Re: What happens when you are judged

Posted: 16 May 2020, 17:41
by DarkJedi
nibbler wrote:
15 May 2020, 18:30
I think the teaching that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom came from someone concerned that if people could progress from kingdom to kingdom then everyone would approach life with reckless abandon. In other words, why bother trying to be good in life if you have all eternity to make it? In comes the "rule" that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom to stave off that imagined outcome.

I've found that generally we are our own harshest critic. So much so that I feel god would take on more of a therapist role than the role of judge. People are very good at being judges, it's no surprise that we imagine god to be the same.
I agree and could name names (not someone, rather a group) but it's easy enough to figure out, although some of them were a little more "behind the scenes" players. I believe this orchestrated shift in ideology is the roots of today's "strict obedience" and works based salvation attitude. I also believe we are starting to see a shift away from that ideology but I don't expect to really see a return to the teaching of progression in the kingdoms soon, but nowadays almost anything can happen (as long as RMN holds the reins).

Re: What happens when you are judged

Posted: 20 May 2020, 08:53
by Heber13
Arrakeen wrote:
10 May 2020, 22:19
Recently I’ve come to really like the idea of reincarnation. It gives mortality a more learning-centered feel while the LDS concept of earth life is often framed as more of a test. I would like to believe in a God who sets things up to help us and teach us rather than to judge who is worthy.
Don't you think it would make so much sense since we believe in a spirit world and progression that we should keep getting more chances in this mortal life to learn things until we are worthy of the CK? Instead of eternally stuck in TKs?
Katzpur wrote:
10 May 2020, 19:51
To me, my body and my spirit belong together. I'm still undecided as to whether I believe in progression between kingdoms, though, and until I find a good reason to disbelieve it, I'm going to keep leaning in that direction.
I guess that would be the other factor...it wouldn't keep our mortal bodies consistent with spirit and body immortalized forever, and probably create more problems with the plan of salvation for who is sealed to whom. So...I guess it wouldn't work out.

Just seems weird we have eternity...and so much judged on this brief blink of an eye in our mortal experience, especially when so much random stuff happens in mortality to make it seem unfair to one shot at this ... there is so much out of our control in order to experience and learn things just in one lifetime.

Re: What happens when you are judged

Posted: 21 May 2020, 15:01
by Roy
A long time ago I had a similar struggle. A StayLDS participant by the name Mercyngrace showed me a way to reconcile the unrestrained love of God and His desire for our eternal progress with LDS teachings.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2288&hilit=love+win ... l&start=20
What are these 3 degrees of the Celestial Kingdom? These are not really different KINGDOMS - in fact the word kingdom only appears in the SINGULAR in D&C 76. There are however, different GLORIES. D&C 88 explains that we are quickened to the glory of the kingdom whose law we are able to keep but we live together in the Celestial kingdom. For that to happen, the degrees we teach as a "tiered heaven" must be the degrees of glory which individual beings inherit in the Celestial Kingdom. D&C 130:2 reiterates that we will have the SAME SOCIALITY in heaven that we have now only couple with eternal GLORY.

Now Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and other early restoration prophets taught that resurrection is a culmination of progression. So we continue to progress in spirit until we are prepared to be resurrected - this is why D&C says that the greater knowledge a man acquires here, the more his advantage in the world to come. Not because others are lost but because those who abide higher laws are further along in the process.

Some more recent church leaders have spoken vehemently against progression between the kingdoms based on the misconception that a being can be resurrected in a telestial or terrestrial state. In other words, you can't progress from being a telestial resurrected being to a celestial resurrected being. That is true. It's true because you can't be resurrected prior to entering the celestial kingdom, at least, according to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Now I can provide you with quotes to these ends as well as quotes by more recent church leaders who also spoke to the universal nature of salvation.

There is a judgment, a final judgment, and you will have been prepared to meet it successfully before you are presented at the veil. It is an individual presentation and you must have been taught everything that you need to know before arriving.
The quoted portion is only a taste. Please follow the link if you want source citations etc.

As indicated in the quoted portion. Some more recent church leaders have spoken against such progression. I have found that for me to stayLDS it is necessary for me to believe some things differently than others in my ward. We do not all have to have identical beliefs. Still, it helps if I can quote a church leader in support of my divergent beliefs. This helps others to understand that, while I may be different, I am still Mormon.

Re: What happens when you are judged

Posted: 22 May 2020, 08:46
by Heber13
Roy wrote:
21 May 2020, 15:01
I have found that for me to stayLDS it is necessary for me to believe some things differently than others in my ward. We do not all have to have identical beliefs. Still, it helps if I can quote a church leader in support of my divergent beliefs. This helps others to understand that, while I may be different, I am still Mormon.
I like the way you said that. Thanks for the reminder.

Since none of us know what the judgment or any part of the afterlike is really like, even if others at church want to have certainty on it so badly, the fact is we choose what to put faith in by what we read, and also what we feel inside to make sense to us, confirmed by the spirit.