What happens when you are judged

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Gomezaddams51
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Joined: 04 May 2020, 11:19

What happens when you are judged

Post by Gomezaddams51 » 10 May 2020, 15:11

Well enough of my life crisis. Here is an actual Church question. What happens after we are "judged"?

Here is my question...

Imagine infinity as a long straight never ending line. Somewhere along the line you put an electron microscope and set it to the highest magnification. And you put a dot that you can barely see. That is our life on earth. Totally insignificant amount of time and yet it is everything. If during that microsecond of time we do something bad, we end up in one of the lower kingdoms. If by some chance at the microsecond of time we are doing something good we end up in the highest kingdom. According to the church once we are judged we are going to one of three destinations (plus outer darkness) and we are stuck there. Only the ones going to the highest kingdom get to move on and live the high life. The rest of those on the other two kingdoms are screwed.

I was always fed the BS that god is an all wise loving heavenly father. But banishing two whole bunches of souls is NOT loving by any stretch of the imagination. It would be like someone who had two kids and they take one microsecond and if one or both of the children are good they get rewarded over and over. If at that microsecond of time one or both were bad they would be locked in a closet forever.

What seems more loving is Reincarnation. We keep trying until we finally get it right. No one is banished and everyone continues on their progression.

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Katzpur
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Katzpur » 10 May 2020, 19:51

It used to really bother my mother that, although there is supposedly progression within the Celestial Kingdom, there is supposedly no progression between kingdoms. I've heard that all my life, but I am not aware of any scriptural support for the idea. Maybe a GA here and there has said something to that effect, but is it really scriptural? I personally lean towards a belief that there is room for everyone to progress as far as they want to. I don't like the idea of reincarnation. The idea of returning to life in a different body kind of creeps me out. To me, my body and my spirit belong together. I'm still undecided as to whether I believe in progression between kingdoms, though, and until I find a good reason to disbelieve it, I'm going to keep leaning in that direction.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

Curt Sunshine
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 May 2020, 22:12

Frankly, I see it all as symbolic, so I don't have to worry about it.

I believe in eternal progression - for everyone.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Arrakeen
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Arrakeen » 10 May 2020, 22:19

Recently I’ve come to really like the idea of reincarnation. It gives mortality a more learning-centered feel while the LDS concept of earth life is often framed as more of a test. I would like to believe in a God who sets things up to help us and teach us rather than to judge who is worthy. While it may be a weird source of spirituality, I’ve found interesting perspectives on God, reincarnation, and the afterlife in some of the Asian dramas I watch. It’s interesting to see other cultures’ perspectives on religion, even by just looking at how those ideas appear in their popular culture.

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DarkJedi
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by DarkJedi » 11 May 2020, 03:47

Katzpur wrote:
10 May 2020, 19:51
It used to really bother my mother that, although there is supposedly progression within the Celestial Kingdom, there is supposedly no progression between kingdoms. I've heard that all my life, but I am not aware of any scriptural support for the idea. Maybe a GA here and there has said something to that effect, but is it really scriptural? I personally lean towards a belief that there is room for everyone to progress as far as they want to. I don't like the idea of reincarnation. The idea of returning to life in a different body kind of creeps me out. To me, my body and my spirit belong together. I'm still undecided as to whether I believe in progression between kingdoms, though, and until I find a good reason to disbelieve it, I'm going to keep leaning in that direction.
According to Givens, prior to the 1950s and the influence of certain GAs it was commonly believed and taught in the church that progression in the afterlife was part of the plan. I also believe in that idea of eternal progression, and I do not discount the idea of multiple experiences on Earth. I also believe none of us, including any and all GAs who have ever lived, know what happens in the afterlife including judgement.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Minyan Man
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Minyan Man » 11 May 2020, 06:03

I view it as meeting an old friend I haven't seen in a long time.
You pick up where you left off prior to coming to earth.
The conclusion will be concerning my life:
wasn't that interesting.
Personally I have too much to navigate by getting through today to worry about my final judgement.

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Katzpur
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Katzpur » 11 May 2020, 10:19

DarkJedi wrote:
11 May 2020, 03:47
According to Givens, prior to the 1950s and the influence of certain GAs it was commonly believed and taught in the church that progression in the afterlife was part of the plan. I also believe in that idea of eternal progression, and I do not discount the idea of multiple experiences on Earth. I also believe none of us, including any and all GAs who have ever lived, know what happens in the afterlife including judgement.
So that does sound as if it's not actual doctrine to that there won't be progression between kingdoms, but just the opinion of certain GAs. I'm with you -- none of us knows what it's all going to be like. The older I get, the less I find myself worrying about the unknowns.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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Heber13
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Heber13 » 12 May 2020, 08:50

Gomezaddams51 wrote:
10 May 2020, 15:11
Only the ones going to the highest kingdom get to move on and live the high life. The rest of those on the other two kingdoms are screwed.

I was always fed the BS that god is an all wise loving heavenly father. But banishing two whole bunches of souls is NOT loving by any stretch of the imagination. It would be like someone who had two kids and they take one microsecond and if one or both of the children are good they get rewarded over and over. If at that microsecond of time one or both were bad they would be locked in a closet forever.

What seems more loving is Reincarnation. We keep trying until we finally get it right. No one is banished and everyone continues on their progression.
Frankly, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. All we have are teachings and data points to build our beliefs.

If there are things in those scenarios you listed that seem to be BS or don't make sense to you, discard them, cafeteria style...choose the good parts.

There is great value for me in holding on to the belief that God is all knowing, powerful, and loving. Therefore, if it doesn't make sense to me it would seem it wouldn't make sense to a superior God, and He will have higher ways.

I like teachings of reincarnation. Perhaps multiple chances to keep learning is a good thing, but there are some things that I get hung up on for that as well when I get into the specifics.

There is also the possibility it is completely different than anything we have been taught, and as Curt stated, it is all symbolic. In which case, you get something out of the symbolism that helps you, or you don't and not worry about it.

The afterlife is a mystery. What we have here and now is real. I am not sure there is a god, but I choose to have faith in one that does not have a lame plan like you described that banishes most of his creations.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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nibbler
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by nibbler » 15 May 2020, 18:30

I think the teaching that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom came from someone concerned that if people could progress from kingdom to kingdom then everyone would approach life with reckless abandon. In other words, why bother trying to be good in life if you have all eternity to make it? In comes the "rule" that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom to stave off that imagined outcome.

I've found that generally we are our own harshest critic. So much so that I feel god would take on more of a therapist role than the role of judge. People are very good at being judges, it's no surprise that we imagine god to be the same.
None of the things one frets about ever happen. Something one's never thought of does.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

Roy
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Re: What happens when you are judged

Post by Roy » 16 May 2020, 10:10

I remember reading about an analogy from the early Utah period comparing the kingdoms to wheels on a train. The idea is that each of the kingdoms is progressing and all the inhabitants with it. As each kingdom progresses, it will inhabit the level that another kingdom used to inhabit. The telestial kingdom will progress to become what the terrestial kingdom is now, the terrestial kingdom will progress to become what the celestial kingdom is now, and the celestial kingdom will have progressed to become something even higher and more wonderful, forever and ever. Just like the wheels on a train, the back wheels reach where the front wheels were but they never catch up because the front wheels have moved on.
nibbler wrote:
15 May 2020, 18:30
I think the teaching that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom came from someone concerned that if people could progress from kingdom to kingdom then everyone would approach life with reckless abandon. In other words, why bother trying to be good in life if you have all eternity to make it? In comes the "rule" that people can't progress from kingdom to kingdom to stave off that imagined outcome.
Then someone decided that idea wasn't motivating enough to make sacrifices to live our best lives right now and the teaching was stopped.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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