What happened??? A proclamation

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Post Reply
Ebowalker
Posts: 15
Joined: 03 Aug 2015, 05:37

What happened??? A proclamation

Post by Ebowalker » 05 Apr 2020, 20:12

I watched all sessions of GC and I am very clueless about LDS culture, even though a member many years now, I never really integrated into it and I have a nm spouse.

Please, could someone explain to me about today’s “announcement”, the Proclamation? We all believe and have been taught this all our lives in the Church. Why does it have to be called a proclamation? Twitter blew up about it, all soooo excited and I just thought, well, sure... I’m ok with this, as I’ve always been...

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4403
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by nibbler » 06 Apr 2020, 06:34

During conference Nelson made a reference to five existing proclamations. I struggled to think of what they were so I went looking. I thought the Living Christ was one, but it is not. I did run into an interesting one that I think sets a precedent for the new proclamation.

The fourth proclamation was issued on April 6, 1980 and was essentially a refresher of the church's message to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the foundation of the church. It too was a simple restatement of basic things the church teaches. Sort of like a mission statement. That's essentially how I view this most recent proclamation. Nothing that covers any new ground or anything revelatory, just quick reference statements of belief.

Even before finding the fourth proclamation I struggled a bit with the question: Why now and not April 6, 2030? Especially considering that there's some doubt as to whether the first vision occurred in 1820 or 1821.

My cynical side... maybe I should gag my cynical side this time, it's pretty cynical. :silent: :P ...the best I can come up with is that the first vision is the message that church leaders want the world to have at this time, so the bicentennial celebration is more about the first vision than the foundation of the church... or maybe we'll get another celebration and proclamation in 10 years.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

User avatar
felixfabulous
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 07:13

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by felixfabulous » 06 Apr 2020, 08:53

I had really mixed feelings about this (and conference in general). On the positive side, I liked commemorating our history, it was cool for Pres. Nelson to read this in the sacred grove and to do something to mark the occasion. Even though I think the First Vision was a mystical experience that was probably a combination of something like the 1832 account and something that was later described as the visit of Moroni all rolled into one (I actually think it happened later than 1820 and was probably more what described as later with Moroni's visit), I think it's become our foundational myth and ties us with the whole idea of the restoration and is worth celebrating, no matter what you believe about what literally happened. On the negative side, I think proclamations have a lot of baggage after the Family Proclamation and really fear that this will be used as a club to try to pound into submission historians and people who take issue with some of the ideas, like that Joseph saw two beings or that Christ set up a church, it seems to leave less room for nuanced belief.

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4403
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by nibbler » 06 Apr 2020, 10:43

One theory for a goal behind the new proclamation is that it was an attempt to pave over the multiple first vision accounts and serve as the authoritative narrative.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

Ebowalker
Posts: 15
Joined: 03 Aug 2015, 05:37

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by Ebowalker » 06 Apr 2020, 15:17

nibbler wrote:
06 Apr 2020, 06:34

The fourth proclamation was issued on April 6, 1980 and was essentially a refresher of the church's message to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the foundation of the church. It too was a simple restatement of basic things the church teaches. Sort of like a mission statement. That's essentially how I view this most recent proclamation. Nothing that covers any new ground or anything revelatory, just quick reference statements of belief.
Oh no. A mission statement? Like a corporation? Ugh
I’m so far from where I used to be. Can’t we leave the corporate stuff out and just be a church?

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 7283
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by SilentDawning » 06 Apr 2020, 21:13

nibbler wrote:
06 Apr 2020, 10:43
One theory for a goal behind the new proclamation is that it was an attempt to pave over the multiple first vision accounts and serve as the authoritative narrative.
I just finished watching a documentary on the Puritans arriving in America. There was one historian who I found fascinating. She commented that our historical stories are a reflection of WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN OURSELVES, rather than actual truth.

We tend to emphasize those aspects of our history that we would like to define us, and de-emphasize those parts we would rather not remember about ourselves.

Apparently, Jamestown was the first American colony, but it was highly unsuccessful. In spite of pouring in eight thousand colonists, they only had 1000 colonists who survived. The story of the Pilgrims at Plymouth is much more "sexy" to a nation wanting to paint itself in the most glorious light. Alliances with local Indians, Thanksgiving, survival under adverse conditions (like starting the ocean voyage in September and not the winter in time to land for spring and planting season.

I tend to view the stories we read about in Truth Restored, the JS History etcetera...

[Interesting tangent, in the PBS documentary, there was a pilgrim named John Howland, an indentured servant. He was washed overboard the Mayflower on the journey to America, but hung on to a rope and was saved. From him, a number of prominent Americans, including Chevy Chase, and both Bush's (of the presidential Bush's) descended. Another prominent American -- Joseph Smith also descended from that one person....Back to our regularly scheduled program].
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

User avatar
Gerald
Posts: 426
Joined: 29 Sep 2011, 04:57

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by Gerald » 07 Apr 2020, 03:40

The Proclamation? Meh. A restatement of a message the Church has been sending out for years. If I recall correctly, at one point missionary discussions began with the First Vision. By the time I went on my mission, the discussions (wisely) didn't present Joseph Smith's First Vision until the third(?) discussion. I don't know how they do it nowadays. I can't see how the world is going to be moved much by our tiny Church's self-important proclamation. I don't think the world pays much attention to us and the members already know the story well. Put me down as unimpressed by the proclamation. I hope that doesn't come across too cynical. If there are those who derive strength and pride from this proclamation, more power to them.

Sorry to be a bit negative...I think I've "sheltered in place" a little too long!
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4403
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by nibbler » 07 Apr 2020, 09:03

Ebowalker wrote:
06 Apr 2020, 15:17
Oh no. A mission statement? Like a corporation? Ugh
I’m so far from where I used to be. Can’t we leave the corporate stuff out and just be a church?
To be fair, "mission statement" are my words but that's kind of how the April 6, 1980 and April 2020 proclamations read; definitive statements of belief, sort of like a longer winded refresh of the articles of faith.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

Khadijah
Posts: 40
Joined: 22 Dec 2014, 11:35

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by Khadijah » 07 Apr 2020, 09:33

Most of it is smoke and mirrors, oh and um gaslighting.

IF/when I go to Sacrament service, I will do the Sacrament, and if they get too crazy or hurtful, I just leave. Their harping about worthiness and Temple Recommends is disingenuous.

Roy
Posts: 6020
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: What happened??? A proclamation

Post by Roy » 13 Apr 2020, 10:30

nibbler wrote:
07 Apr 2020, 09:03
To be fair, "mission statement" are my words but that's kind of how the April 6, 1980 and April 2020 proclamations read; definitive statements of belief, sort of like a longer winded refresh of the articles of faith.
I appreciate the analysis. Nothing for me to get worked up about. :thumbup:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Post Reply