Area devotional?

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felixfabulous
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by felixfabulous » 21 Oct 2019, 08:34

What clinched it for me was this quote from Heber J. Grant (while he was Church President) in a letter responding directly to a woman who asked if the Church leaders spoke with the Lord the same way Joseph Smith did: “I know of no instance where the Lord has appeared to an individual since His appearance to the Prophet Joseph Smith.”

I have been really bothered that our leaders seem to want to hitch our wagons to the political winds of the religious right and conservative Republican politics. Prophets in the Old Testament and Book of Mormon called out wicked kings, I feel like our prophets should be calling out Trump and warning the nation and the President that he needs to repent, not just asking us to pray for him.

Nibbler, I didn't know what to make of it at the time, but now I've heard of similar responses and think it's a definite no and way to avoid answering the question.

nibbler
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by nibbler » 21 Oct 2019, 08:37

I heard reports that people were asked to pray for "the country" during the devotional.

It's a safe way to phrase things for both sides. People that love what's happening in the country will take that as a signal to pray that god will continue to guide elected leaders. People that don't love what's happening in the country will take that as a signal to pray that god will be able to turn things around.

Roy
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by Roy » 21 Oct 2019, 09:35

I recall being taught that the Q15 have all seen Christ. This teaching is almost always taught explicitly by someone not in the Q15.

In my mission we were visited by Elder Scott and we were specifically instructed before the visit not to ask him about spiritual experiences. It sounds like this was a fairly regular occurance that they wanted to prevent.

In his address to us, Elder Scott taught about revelation with a personal example. He described impressions that he received while attending SS and then later pondering on his impressions and praying to know if there was more that God wished to share with him on the subject. New ideas and impressions then came to him as a result. This story is consistent with Apostles receiving revelation, inspiration, direction in a similar fashion to other people.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Roy
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by Roy » 21 Oct 2019, 09:57

felixfabulous wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 07:27
I read the DesNews article this morning and was struck by this line: “As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” said President Ballard. “His words often include words of encouragement and expressions of love. They also include words of warning.”

This was a huge question of mine for many years that is kind of a taboo topic. Do the prophets and apostles have interviews with Jesus? I think statements like this are highly suggestive they do without coming out and saying it. One could read the statement above either way. The inference is that there is some kind of special interview or access that he has that others don't. One could also determine that the "words" he is speaking of come from studying the scriptures and gaining insights.
Looking back at this quote, I do not believe he was describing an interview. “As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” I believe the key phrase that makes you think of an interview is that President Ballard says that he has a "duty to face the Lord." However, he then says "and deliver his message." It would not make much sense to enter the presence of the Lord in a worthiness interview and then deliver the Lord's message unto the Lord. I think perhaps a better phrase to convey what President Ballard was thinking would be to say "solemn duty to stand before the Lord and deliver his message." We tend to understand that "Stand before the Lord" does not literally mean that Jesus is standing in front of me but rather that Jesus can see everything I do from His throne in heaven.

President Ballard is saying that he has a duty to deliver the message of Jesus Christ and that he will be judged by how faithfully he does it. Then he goes on to talk about the words of Jesus Christ. I believe that "His words" are synonymous with "his message" that President Ballard is duty bound to share. I believe that the words that are here referenced are the words that President Ballard is about to speak.
"Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38
“It is no small thing, my brothers and sisters, to have a prophet of God in our midst. Great and wonderful are the blessings that come into our lives as we listen to the word of the Lord given to us through him [the prophet]. … When we hear the counsel of the Lord expressed through the words of the President of the Church, our response should be positive and prompt. History has shown that there is safety, peace, prosperity, and happiness in responding to prophetic counsel as did Nephi of old: ‘I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded’ (1 Ne. 3:7).” Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “His Word Ye Shall Receive,” Liahona, July 2001, 80; Ensign, May 2001, 65.
If I had to guess, I would assume that President Ballard was preparing to give some bad news - words of warning about the sorry state of the world and how not to join the bandwagon of today's popular social movements (LGBTQ?).
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mom3
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by mom3 » 21 Oct 2019, 09:59

Boy am I glad I live on the left coast. Oh wait, I wouldn't have gone anyway. Just reading this thread gives me eye-roll headache. Seriously. :crazy:
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

AmyJ
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by AmyJ » 21 Oct 2019, 10:04

We got last-minute word that there was a fireside being broadcast with Elder Ballard speaking yesterday at church. I think that this must be connected to that. I did not go. I had the social resources to handle church (including having my circulation cut off by my daughter holding my arm so much during the Primary Presentation Practice - which she aced her part in) and our Linger Longer and that was it.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by DarkJedi » 21 Oct 2019, 11:20

mom3 wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 09:59
Boy am I glad I live on the left coast. Oh wait, I wouldn't have gone anyway. Just reading this thread gives me eye-roll headache. Seriously. :crazy:
Which is exactly why I didn't go.... I was expecting the prophet worship, and that would have been too much for me. I do respect and even revere Joseph Smith. Nevertheless, I don't believe that his birthplace is sacred nor do I believe the "Sacred Grove" is sacred. The nearby temple may be sacred but not because anyone was born there or had a vision (which could have taken place anywhere) there. Even as a descendant of the Smiths I don't think I would consider a birth place sacred. But maybe that's just me. (And maybe I'm the only one who wonders why calling such a place sacred makes people think we worship Joseph Smith.)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by mom3 » 21 Oct 2019, 12:43

(And maybe I'm the only one who wonders why calling such a place sacred makes people think we worship Joseph Smith.)
Because we do.

I think if Hyrum and Joseph saw what we have done, they would be mortified. Yes Joseph made some major human gaffes (can you call polygamy a gaffe?) but he took 3 years from the time of the "vision" to even do anything with it. Even then it was kind of small and indirect. He was post-Mo before it was trendy to be so. He wanted to be untethered.

I have recently been immersed in Spiritualism/Manifesting/Mind-Soul stuff. The more I study, the more I imagine Joseph being a pre-cursor to a new age guru. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive, it can achieve." It's too long to go into. I keep thinking I will write a post on it. - But anyway, the early church was this rugged, Amish, Transcendental, thing. Not a hero - restoration story that it's been made into.

Now having a "Three Cheers for Brigham Party" might work. But I think we take Joseph far away from what he saw himself as. And definitely Hyrum.

So out of respect to the Divine Experience Joseph had, I am actually deliberately avoiding the whole "Praise to Joe" experience next year. Sounds like I need to get a jump on that now.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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PazamaManX
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by PazamaManX » 21 Oct 2019, 13:17

Elder Uchtdorf did one for Southern California around 10 years ago or so. The only thing I remember from it is the joke he made, saying that his wife told him that Californians should have no problem understanding his accent because we're used to our governor (Arnold Schwarzenegger at the time). :lol:
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness, even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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mom3
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Re: Area devotional?

Post by mom3 » 21 Oct 2019, 14:21

And my final gripe on this - Why all the hoopla about "Church of Jesus Christ" and not making that our big ToDo. Go to Bethelem. Walk the Mount of Olives. Have our 200 Year birthday be Jesus Soaked. Even by Joseph's only handwritten account - he goes to Jesus for a remission of sins. Let's get back to Jesus.

Maybe I should tour the Holy Land instead.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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