Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

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Curt Sunshine
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Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Oct 2019, 18:30

I don't want this to get lost in the discussion about other changes.

The words "night and day" have been removed from the garment question. Now it simply says, "as instructed in the endowment". (Initiatory is considered part of the endowment ceremony.)

This has been mentioned often here, so I want to celebrate it on its own.
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Heavy_Laden
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by Heavy_Laden » 06 Oct 2019, 18:49

That was the first thing I noticed when looking at the questions. As a never-garment wearer, I don't fully grasp wearing them but I would imagine any kind of relief would be welcomed.
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LookingHard
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by LookingHard » 07 Oct 2019, 04:08

My initiatory freaked me out a bit (back when you were near naked and people touching you in ways that was not sexual or anything, but made me very uncomfortable). So I never went back and did them again. So what exactly is said there? (if anyone feels comfortable saying)

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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by nibbler » 07 Oct 2019, 05:39

I don't see the significance of removing "both night and day."

They removed "in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple." Presumably because we don't make a covenant with respect to wearing garments in the temple.

Here is the new question in its entirety:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?
I suppose one could nuance that into when wearing the garment, don't put both legs in the same leg hole and hop about, or don't wear the top inside out.
LookingHard wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 04:08
So what exactly is said there? (if anyone feels comfortable saying)
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DarkJedi
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by DarkJedi » 07 Oct 2019, 06:02

LookingHard wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 04:08
My initiatory freaked me out a bit (back when you were near naked and people touching you in ways that was not sexual or anything, but made me very uncomfortable). So I never went back and did them again. So what exactly is said there? (if anyone feels comfortable saying)
It's been a while, but I used to like doing initiatories and I like it even better now that I'm dressed during the process. The wording is to the effect that you should wear them throughout your life. It's quite vague and there is no mention of day and night or covenant as I recall.

So, I agree with Curt that this is a small step. While it was explicitly stated, I presume the "statement" about wearing the garment is also being eliminated - but maybe not and maybe that's why they feel comfortable changing the wording in the question itself(?).
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felixfabulous
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by felixfabulous » 07 Oct 2019, 07:27

This is a hobby horse of mine, I'll weigh in. I was really bothered by the old question because it inferred you'd made a covenant to wear the garment day and night in the endowment (which you never do). I thought this was manipulative and also really disliked the instruction about wearing garments while working in the yard (talk about being commanded in all things). I think the new question is designed to give people a little more leeway, which I like. The actual language in the temple is that you are instructed to wear it throughout your life. I think that just wearing garments in the temple would be in line with this and I see us eventually headed this direction.

Our whole framework surrounding the garment has shifted dramatically. When I was growing up, it was literal, physical protection from harm and sin. That created a big incentive never to take them off. I heard countless stories of people not being burned on areas covered by the garment, being spared in car accidents, etc. We've totally pivoted away from this and now they are just a reminder of covenants. I don't think this elicits the same need to wear them all the time. I think the older folks that grew up thinking they were a physical protection still hold to this belief and see the need to always have them on, I think the younger people who see it as a reminder are more lax in wearing them.

The reality is that people are getting more lax with garments. I would imagine my parents (who didn't really exercise) took off their garments a few times a year to swim, but other than that did almost everything with them on. It seems like most younger people take them off to exercise, hike and do lots of other activities. I think this is trying to accommodate this reality. I find them uncomfortable and don't like being told how to wear my underwear, so I am very lax with garment wearing (essentially just on Sundays, to ward functions and family events).

This question makes it easier to keep a recommend in the messy middle, but some of the others make it harder. Some of the questions, especially the one about doctrine contrary to the Church would be difficult for almost anyone to answer if they took it literally.

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mom3
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by mom3 » 07 Oct 2019, 09:06

I told Daughter1, that my husband had recently read an online thread that endowed/faithful ladies in Utah had come up with a brilliant way to stay cool all summer and deflect garment wearing judgement. They wear their gym wear all day ie, shorts, tank tops, etc. If anyone looks askance, they reply, "Just left the gym" or "Heading to the gym". Funny enough, they may never have set foot in a gym or jogged all day.

My MIL was a throw back to the "don't not wear your garments" era. Every time we came back from water skiing and my husband was walking through the house without his on, she would comment, remind, scold. Little tsks.

My dad got plowed over by another member years ago when we were leaving the beach, because it was still hot, he wanted to drive with his shirt off or open, and some kind member reminded him that he was setting an example for the ward.

Our biggest problem in Mo-land is being everyone else's watch dog. We somehow think we are God's brute squad. Whether it's WoW useage, Garment wearing, Sabbath Day observance. You name it. We are taught-by example- how to be our brothers keepers in the world of Mo-judgement.

For me I am taking this as leave to interpret as I please. I did anyway, but even more so now.
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LookingHard
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by LookingHard » 07 Oct 2019, 11:49

I don’t live close to Utah and I run into ward members all the time in their “gym” clothes at ALL times of the day – even when the gyms are all closed. Whatever.

But then again, we did have a bishop that loved to run and he would run shirtless in the neighborhood when it was hot.

Amen on people focusing more on policing others that just trying to improve one’s self.

I wonder if they are going to keep it somewhat vague on if you HAVE to wear garments at night. The statement they would read as part of the interview got into details of “working in the yard” or something like that. I think for some this is not a minor issue. I have seen many women talking about needing more “breathing” in certain areas or some infections are more likely. Many of the changes have been after years of petitioning (civil weddings a few days before sealing, YW theme including heavenly parents, 2 hour church). So I would like it if they are talking about “nighttime” being optional that they clarify otherwise the Nazi underwear police can cause friction in marriages where they don’t see eye to eye on this topic.

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felixfabulous
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Re: Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by felixfabulous » 07 Oct 2019, 12:01

I think lots of women stay in workout clothes all day as a great loophole to our legalistic requirements. After my FC it was hard to see the garment as anything more than a control mechanism, especially as a way to police what women wear and ensure it is modest. I guess I still wonder if it's not a control mechanism, why do we ask about it in the TR interview?

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Cadence
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Change to Garment Question in Temple Recommend Interview

Post by Cadence » 07 Oct 2019, 12:04

I could easily interpret that to mean how you wear the garment is important. Not when you wear it.


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