I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

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Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Minyan Man » 17 Sep 2019, 17:04

In this case, my sympathy is with the last speaker. Who wants to be in that position?
There are times when you walk out of church asking yourself, what was the point of that talk?
Because it is so chopped up.

The other point is: what does an investigator think? This after they have attended another church with professional clergy.
Clergy who run & control the "show" completely from start to finish. Plan the service, write the talk, deliver the message.
I know what you're going to say: the membership has no investment in the service.
And you're right. But, (the big but) there has to be a better way. I hope & pray it is only happening in my ward.

There I'm done. I have exercised the demon. Now I feel better. Thank you for you patience.

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Rumin8
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Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Rumin8 » 24 Sep 2019, 13:36

Interesting how this is different in different wards. For example, when we have members of the SP visit, they observe and "preside" but never speak. We always have a musical number between speakers. Usually the format is: Youth Speaker, Adult speaker 1, Music, Adult speaker 2. We talk in BP about being specific about the time allocations for speakers. The only time this is relaxed is for returning missionaries. We also adjust the schedule appropriately to allow them more time. We very rarely go overtime.

We are often in trouble with the SP because we treat returning missionaries different from other speakers, we congratulate members of the congregation for notable achievements from the pulpit, and often summarize the high points of the various messages in the closing announcements.

We have a great ward and a BP that is willing to adjust and go "rogue" when it benefits the ward community in positive ways.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Be excellent to each other." - Abraham Lincoln to Bill & Ted

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Minyan Man » 24 Sep 2019, 15:35

Rumin8 wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 13:36
... we congratulate members of the congregation for notable achievements from the pulpit, and often summarize the high points of the various messages in the closing announcements.

We have a great ward and a BP that is willing to adjust and go "rogue" when it benefits the ward community in positive ways.
Rumin, what kinds of achievements would be noted from the pulpit? Just curious.

This past Sunday was the HC Sunday. The HC & the SP attended. The HC began the meeting by releasing a number of people from the Stake
Organizations. After the releases came the vote to sustain the new people being calling. The SP came to the podium & corrected the HC
because he was announcing the wrong members for the positions. They started over & everytime the correct names were read the HC looked
at the SP for his approval before the membership raised their collective hands. At the end of the meeting, the SP stood & formally "repented"
for the mistake because it was his email that the HC used in the first place. Needless to say, we went over the time limit again.

I know they are good men. These positions are difficult, time consuming & require long hours away from their families.
Again, I wonder what does a new member or investigator think when this occurs?

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Roy » 24 Sep 2019, 16:16

I do not think many people come to our church for the inspiring or engaging meetings. That is not our business model.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Ellerbe
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Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Ellerbe » 25 Sep 2019, 03:00

Wouldn't inspiring meetings add to the experience though? I don't see how that would hurt.

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Roy » 25 Sep 2019, 09:34

Ellerbe wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 03:00
Wouldn't inspiring meetings add to the experience though? I don't see how that would hurt.
Yes, I agree BUT … who would be in charge of ensuring quality control for the SM? The bishop? Remember that he is basically a conscripted volunteer.
Who would give the keynote speech or sermon? The bishop again? It can be difficult to ensure quality control will assigning regular members of the congregation to speak the way that we do.
These are not impossible questions to work out but we start to see where we might need to see changes in order for this to be successful. Is there the political will to make changes? Our senior leadership tend to be advanced in age and that means that they tend to be more comfortable with the status quo (RMN appears to be a standout exception to this trend considering the changes he has made recently). Our business model is that people attend our church meetings out of a sense of duty. We have a monopoly on salvation and if you want some you will have to sit through our boring meetings.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SilentDawning
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Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by SilentDawning » 25 Sep 2019, 21:06

I want to cut Sacrament meeting back to sacrament hymn and sacrament, then announcements. Go to the one hour meeting after that and you're done.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Minyan Man » 26 Sep 2019, 07:10

SD, is this what you really want? or is it just sarcasm?

My hope is: they (Bishopric) think it through, plan what they want, train the congregation and execute to the plan.
No more making an assignment in the hallway the Sunday before.
No more long winded speakers.
No more musical numbers that go on forever.
No more cutting down talks to meet a time schedule.

If we can't or won't do that, give me a drive up window & the deacons can pass the sacrament through the window.
(Yes, I know. I'm silly.) I talk this way our of frustration.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 Sep 2019, 14:42

I have said for a long time that Sacrament Meeting should be a worship service, not another Sunday School class or PH/RS meeting.

We need to be inspired by worshipful things occasionally. That is what Sac Mtg is supposed to provide.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Katzpur
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Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Katzpur » 26 Sep 2019, 17:31

DarkJedi wrote:
17 Sep 2019, 09:42
I like your 15 minute speaker and the rest for music MM. I've long thought sacrament meeting should be more like Music and the Spoken Word.
Absolutely!
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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