Study doctrine and change behavior

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Havefaith
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 08:46

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Havefaith » 23 Aug 2019, 19:22

So I'm thinking about scripture reading and what it has done and what it has not done for me. It reminds me of the scripture where Nephi tells us to liken the scriptures unto ourselves. Something like that any ways. I took that literally and tried to apply scriptures in my life.
As a teenager i was very shy, at least thats what i thought. So i would pray to beable to talk with other people. I did really feel I changed until part way through my mission experience when i gained confidence in what i was doing and when given the opportunity to show my confidence.
So i learned to talk with people. The more i think about it the more i think it had alot to do with getting the opportunity.
Being in a different circamstance would not have given me that chance to grow.

So I guess what i am saying is being with and around people who believed in me, changed me. It wasnt a doctrine that I learned nessasarily

After coming home from my mission I got married after a few years and i could not be that same person. I believe it wasnt because i didnt follow doctrine. It wasnt me nessasarily it was i wasnt in the place for those same opportunities i had on my mission. If that makes sence.

I now try to have boundries around people. And can tell when i need those or not more.

I believe following the doctrine taught at church or read in the scriptures would have never changed that. It was studying elsewhere that helped me discover that being my true self involves boundries.
I just happened to have an easier oppertunity on my mission.
Thats what Im thinking now. Im still trying to figure out how the spiritual part had to do with all that.

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Roy » 26 Aug 2019, 09:41

"To a hammer, every problem is a nail"

Imagine going to a bishop asking for help turning a screw. He responds with, "Looks like a nail to me."

It is an imperfect analogy. I believe this "Study Doctrine to change behavior" quote sometimes gives church leadership an out or excuse to give advice based upon church doctrine without necessarily taking the time to really listen and understand the problem.

"Did you try prayer and fasting?"
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Havefaith
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 08:46

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Havefaith » 27 Aug 2019, 13:08

Roy with you bringing up fasting there at the end reminded me a of some spiritual experience i have had in the past. I will have to think about that a bit more because these experiences were very powerful to me at the time. I really believed God interviened in an experience and i contributed it to fasting.
Boy thats a hard one because im not sure i want to let that go.
So thats it i prayed to God to help me not be shy before and reading my scriptues didnt solve it and like i said the circomstance and the people i was with mad the difference. So how was God involved? Ddd he answer my prayers. It sure took a long to for me to figure this boundry thing out. Really like 20 years. Is that what God does? I do believe God haas involved in my life when i comes to things that are not even church related. I can find him in other things.
For example the boundry thing. I dont know i have ever heard that taught at church. In fact its quit opposite at times But i know its true. But can He help a person be baptized by me fasting. I surely thought that on my mission

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Roy » 30 Aug 2019, 15:57

Havefaith,
I do not know how much God is involved in our life. I am even less certain that we mortals can do things to influence God's involvement.

FWIW, I have had my own spiritual experiences that I hold close. You can reinterpret them without discarding them. I ultimately choose to interpret mine to mean that God loves me recklessly, openly, and fully; completely separate from my actions. My "worthiness for love" is an innate characteristic that cannot be separated from my core. God "first loved us". Now in the face of His warming and nurturing love, I believe that we can learn to reflect that love … back to God and also upon our fellow men.

Therefore, my testimony does not involve any divine intervention in our mortal lives. I am completely agnostic on that point. God can love me without swooping in to save the day or even putting his finger on the scale of random events to tip it towards my good fortune.

P.S. I recognize that some people feel passionately about God being there for them in a more interventionist "God of miracles" sort of way. Our church tends to lean that direction and I understand that my testimony might be distressing for some of them. I am therefore very careful in how I express myself with church members.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Heber13 » 01 Sep 2019, 11:33

Havefaith wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 13:08
I really believed God interviened in an experience and i contributed it to fasting.
Boy thats a hard one because im not sure i want to let that go.
I have chosen to hold on to those precious experiences in my life and not throw them out because I see things differently now. They were what they were for me, and I still believe they were needed for me at that time. But I can't keep wishing those experiences will replicate for me now. I have to move forward and look for good in my life that I can find now, even if it is from a different point of view.

Faith is a powerful thing. When I had faith we could move mountains with enough faith in the will of God, it helped me, seeing those things from that point of view.

If I can no longer believe those things are literal, as I did before, OK...then I can see them as symbolic or allegorical...and still draw meaning to help me where I am now.

It is good to have faith and hope in something bigger than ourselves. But our faith can grow and change in life. And that is ok.
Roy wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 15:57
Therefore, my testimony does not involve any divine intervention in our mortal lives. I am completely agnostic on that point. God can love me without swooping in to save the day or even putting his finger on the scale of random events to tip it towards my good fortune.
That can work for many people. It is kind of how I see things too. But I realize not everyone else wants that or will benefit from that. Some may view that as "hopeless" and give up...and really want to believe something else. And that is OK. God won't change. The universe won't change.

But what do we feel we need so that we can change, and find hope in life for good things. Because as we hope for things and have faith that the universe has good things in store for us...I think we are more prone to find good things in our life. At least, that has been the case for me. Regardless of how I describe it to myself...I simply find more good things when I am looking for it...whatever lens I use to help me look for it and move forward acting out of love.

I believe the church doctrines help us do that. Sometimes. And other times, we find other doctrines. All goodness comes from God, wherever we find it.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Havefaith
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 08:46

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Havefaith » 02 Sep 2019, 18:52

Ive been think about this quite a bit. At this time I'm seeing God in many different situations. Non LDS situations too. I cant and dont feel i will ever get rid of the concept of God. Maybe thats what i have learned. God can be in other situations other than LDS ones. Maybe my belief system before my faith crisis was that Our "LDS" God is the only true God. Because our Church is the only thue church I also thought that any one else that believed in God didnt believe in the right God. So there experiences werent real. Boy i dont believe that know. I have heard too many other people say things about God or religion that are true in my eyes.
So maybe since i found things that havent worked for me about the church. Like some of the so called doctrines. I assumed or at least considered God or Jesus wasnt true either.
I dont know if this is comming across the way i want it to. Maybe God and Jesus are avalible decpite what religion a person belongs to. I would hate to think that if i decided to join another religion i would have to change my belifs about God or Jesus.
So i guess my point is its some of the teachings taught in the church that i dont believe in. God or Jesus had or have nothing to do with it. God was never wrong about the teachings i currently believe. It was the church that Got it wrong. Maybe Im saying the people who taught it.
So one day God will make it all right in the church and we will all be on one page finallly.

So God could very likely have answered my prayer but because there were so many peole who have taught me wrong, my prayer took longer to be answered ( God doesnt interfer with agency right). I had to turn to other sourses that God agrees with too to finally get it.

I hope that makes sence.

By the way thanks for sharing your experiences here. It promps me to relize what i believe

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Roy » 03 Sep 2019, 09:22

Havefaith wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 18:52
Because our Church is the only thue church I also thought that any one else that believed in God didnt believe in the right God. So there experiences werent real.
What a great way to put it. I have also heard that the holy spirit confirms truth so maybe he is at work confirming the fractured and scattered bits and pieces of truth available in various Christian faiths. Still, if the Holy Spirit reacts depending to the degree of truth present, shouldn't it be strongest in our church with the "fullness of truth"? Maybe, once we are convinced of the LDS church position on an intellectual basis there is less need for outpourings of the spirit on a weekly basis.

I know of churches where they feel the spirit fill their meetings and their lives. The envision the holy spirit to be actively working in them and through them, molding, stretching, and inspiring for God's holy purpose.
Havefaith wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 18:52
So God could very likely have answered my prayer but because there were so many peole who have taught me wrong, my prayer took longer to be answered ( God doesnt interfer with agency right). I had to turn to other sourses that God agrees with too to finally get it.
God appears to permit the church to teach incorrect and/or misguided things about him for long periods of time - decades, generations even. It seems reasonable that God does not require an individual to believe all the right things in order to be saved. Therefore, whatever church one may belong to will likely include a mixture of correct and incorrect principles.
Havefaith wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 18:52
Maybe God and Jesus are avalible decpite what religion a person belongs to.
I like this line from SD's signature:
A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Heber13 » 03 Sep 2019, 19:33

Just remember the road you were on got you to where you are now, so that you can ask these questions and move ahead.

You don't have to determine if the past road was right or not, only which road ahead you wish to travel on.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Minyan Man » 05 Sep 2019, 06:29

As I read the replies to this posting, I'm asking myself basic question: What is the doctrine of the LDS church?
Below is a link to this topic posted previously. I found it very interesting.

http://www.staylds.com/docs/WhatIsOffic ... trine.html

I think I know what it is then other talks, opinions & beliefs seem to creep in as though it is gospel.
Before I can change my behavior based on doctrine alone, I need to understand what it is & what it isn't.
This helped me a lot. What do you think?

Havefaith
Posts: 38
Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 08:46

Re: Study doctrine and change behavior

Post by Havefaith » 05 Sep 2019, 20:22

I think thats a good question?

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