The Big Universe

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Cadence
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The Big Universe

Post by Cadence » 07 Aug 2019, 12:04

The universe is big really big. So big your human mind can not conceptualize it.

Go back 200 years and the universe as we knew it was small. By comparison very small

So it seems to me we are operating in a religion created in a small universe. We have a god who controls a 200 year old universe.

I find it impossible to fathom any being no matter how powerful controls every particle in the universe

Put in context Mormonism or any religion becomes so insignificant in the scheme of things yet it dominates the lives of so many

Some I know never contemplate the size of the universe but it occupies my mind at times. I think it lends itself to a trillion gods running things or no god at all. The former more likely.


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Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: The Big Universe

Post by Roy » 07 Aug 2019, 14:27

There are some episodes of Rick and Morty that play with scale. Our entire planet could explode tomorrow and cause barely a blip on the universal Richter scale. For something so big, what value or meaning does an individual life have?

People do matter. Kindness matters. Our stories matter. The elements of Religion that help us to be our best selves to each other are useful (even if not true). The elements that promote divisiveness, contention, and dismissal of others are not useful.

I believe that all of the quotes on my signature line have direct bearing on this subject.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
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Re: The Big Universe

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Aug 2019, 04:18

LDS theology has the capability of handling that issue quite well by talking about organizing specific eternal matter in specific locations, not "creating everything" - especially from nothing.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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nibbler
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Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: The Big Universe

Post by nibbler » 08 Aug 2019, 05:16

Douglas Adams wrote:“Space,” it says, “is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”
Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
― Jesus

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LookingHard
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Re: The Big Universe

Post by LookingHard » 08 Aug 2019, 07:08

Most of my TV watching is on space and the universe. I feel tremendous awe when watching these. I just can't seem to get anything close to that feeling with church and teachings.

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DarkJedi
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Re: The Big Universe

Post by DarkJedi » 08 Aug 2019, 08:45

LookingHard wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 07:08
Most of my TV watching is on space and the universe. I feel tremendous awe when watching these. I just can't seem to get anything close to that feeling with church and teachings.
Fun fact: It was watching a program like this (Cosmos) that rekindled my belief in God. It was Carl Sagan talking about "star stuff."

Quotes I like:
The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.
(Sagan)
The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them in their cores and exploded these enriched ingredients across our galaxy, billions of years ago. For this reason, we are biologically connected to every other living thing in the world. We are chemically connected to all molecules on Earth. And we are atomically connected to all atoms in the universe. We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.
(Neil deGrasse Tyson)
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
(Yoda)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Cadence
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Re: The Big Universe

Post by Cadence » 08 Aug 2019, 17:36

Curt Sunshine wrote:LDS theology has the capability of handling that issue quite well by talking about organizing specific eternal matter in specific locations, not "creating everything" - especially from nothing.
Sort of my point. How can any god or multiple gods organize that that much matter? Let alone control it all. Are they making all the planets spin and every electron behave correctly? Or do these gods just take some stuff that was already there and make little planets here and there? If so where did the stuff come from in the first place?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

Curt Sunshine
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Re: The Big Universe

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Aug 2019, 20:03

We have such a limited view of creation and origins. We can't wrap our minds around either genesis: spontaneous creation from nothing (ex nihilo creation, the foundation of most Christian theology) or organizing creation from eternal matter that has no beginning or end (Mormon theology). Interestingly, classic ex nihilism creationists also believe our spirits live forever, but they can't bring themselves to call that existence material.

Of the two, I like eternal matter and eternal progression. Either one is beyond my comprehension, so I go with the one I hope is accurate. In other words, I have faith in it and no expectation of knowledge in this life.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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