Porn Addiction?

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Jul 2019, 05:55

Gerald wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 05:51
Finally, I believe that very few people have "porn problems." They have "life problems" and they use porn to temporarily mute their pain and suffering. It may be that if you can address THOSE issues underlying the compulsive behavior that the behavior itself will go away. But our culture (while better than it used to be) is such that the social consequences for an individual whose porn use is made public are dire indeed. If we can help and support our brothers and sisters in a way that appropriately addresses their struggles without shaming them into silence, that would put ALL of us one step closer to living a Christlike life.
I agree, but I think that's where the whole idea of addiction to porn comes from - the highlighted part is the same reason people turn to drugs and alcohol.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Roy » 05 Aug 2019, 11:14

DarkJedi wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 05:55
I agree, but I think that's where the whole idea of addiction to porn comes from - the highlighted part is the same reason people turn to drugs and alcohol.
Yes, I agree that individuals can use porn to numb stress and life pain in similar ways than other "self medication". I also agree that this has some things in common with individuals with gambling, gaming, or overeating problems. It can become a coping mechanism and not an especially healthy one.

There is a correlation between porn use and loneliness. The following quote is from the first article that Minyan Man shared:
Pornography use begets loneliness, and loneliness begets pornography use. In Pornography Use and Loneliness: A Bidirectional Recursive Model and Pilot Investigation, Butler, Pereyra, Drap, Leonhardt, and Skinner (2018) surveyed 1,247 participants in English-speaking countries around the world to develop a sophisticated statistical model of how various factors related to loneliness and pornography use. Overall, they found that porn use was significantly associated with loneliness. In addition, loneliness was significantly associated with pornography use, suggesting a two-way relationship. In fact, for each “unit” of porn use, loneliness increased significantly by a factor of 0.20. For each unit of loneliness, porn used increased by a factor of 0.16. In addition, as shown in prior research, pornography use was greater for men and was lower for married people. Greater religiousness reduced pornography use, and higher educational level was associated with reduced loneliness. The authors discuss that pornography use is associated with relationship distress, disrupted attachment, and strain on pair bonding. Harm to relationships is due to pornography’s “sexual script, consisting of eroticism, objectification, promiscuity, and misogyny [which] is on its face antithetical to secure attachment… conceptually linked to loneliness"—a perspective supported by the analysis of Pornhub videos' depictions of sexuality.
Butler and colleagues go on to describe pornography addiction as arising from maladaptive efforts to use porn to alleviate loneliness and other negative feelings. In this view, pornography use is a two-phase process of arousal and euphoria during sexual stimulation, followed by relief and comfort after completion. Pornography provides temporary relief, but ultimately induces greater feelings of loneliness and isolation, disrupting normal attachment behavior, leading to greater difficulty forming stable, satisfying relationships, and further increasing the likelihood of using pornography as a substitute for intimacy with close others.
However, I believe that shaming individuals and/or calling them addicts is not helping matters. I am especially concerned with warping young people's views of sexuality because of our demonizing and fear of the subject.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Roy » 05 Aug 2019, 11:24

In summary,

I believe that pornography use is not good for most people, can be habit-forming or addictive, and can be particularly damaging to some vulnerable individuals.

I feel that labeling all porn use as addiction is not helpful. Framing extra-marital arousal as a sickness does a disservice both to natural labido and legitimate mental illnesses and behavioral addictions.

I am personally further dismayed at for-profit therapy organizations that may develop in the shadow of the church's porn stance to "treat" the "addiction."

My own well meaning mother brought me to a non-LDS therapist/counselor because of her concerns for my teenage interests in sex. My mother explained to the counselor that in our religion we have a very strict zero tolerance for almost all sexual activities outside of marriage. The therapist explained to my mother that, from his perspective, I was a perfectly normal and healthy teenage boy and that he could not in good conscience take me on as a client under the pretext of "treating" me for arguably developmentally appropriate behaviors. I respect and honor my mother. She did the best that she could. I also owe this counselor a debt of gratitude for pointing out that I was normal. I needed that.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Minyan Man
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Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Minyan Man » 05 Aug 2019, 12:24

What a great Counselor. That to me, is the definition of what a Counselor should do.

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felixfabulous
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Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by felixfabulous » 06 Aug 2019, 07:55

Can we all agree that after 20-30 years of the Church waging war on porn that we have lost this war and should come up with some new strategies and approaches?

I had a really negative experience with a bishop. I confessed to looking at porn and was forced to retell the experience each time in excruciating detail and shamed and judged throughout the process. He asked what kinds of things I looked at and would add comments like "wow, it's amazing what our minds can find appealing when we get into this stuff isn't it?" "Where do you find this stuff?" He had me go to the addiction recovery program. I liked to be with people who were real and vulnerable, but hated all the self-loathing, proclaiming addiction and saying we were broken. How could I say I was an addict when I did this a few times a year and it did not ruin my life? I was also viewing more porn than I had in the past and constantly thinking about it and beating myself up. At the end of the whole thing, I resolved that I would never talk to a bishop about this again. My wife also talked to other friends and realized that my viewing frequency was pretty normal.

Since then, we are open and honest. It's less frequent, there is less shame and we are happier in our marriage. I've come away thinking: 1. It is totally normal to be curious and interested in porn; 2. We should treat it like yelling at our kids, we know it's bad, we try not to do it and celebrate doing it less--zero tolerance creates more problems than it solves. Our current approach probably encourages way more porn viewing and fuels addictive and secretive behavior instead of occasional and responsible indulgence.

Minyan Man
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Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Minyan Man » 06 Aug 2019, 08:37

Since my original FC I will NEVER go into any details about my life again with my Bishop. It wasn't because of something he
said, it was because he showed absolutely NO empathy, compassion or understanding. If I need to talk to anyone about
what I'm going through in life, I have friends who know me & I know them. With my Bishop or any church authority it is only
the basics. yes or no or I'm uncomfortable talking about it. Anything more serious, I go to a professional. (Which currently
is rare.)

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Roy » 07 Aug 2019, 16:20

Roy wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 11:24
So, considering that my children are probably going to be receiving messages about porn in their church classes fairly soon, DW and I have been discussing how to teach the subject in our own home.
Two nights ago DW and I met with 11 yr old DS on this subject. DW wanted to be present but I asked her to let me do the talking.

I began by telling Roy Jr. that I wanted to talk about relationships. I did date around some and met some really neat young women that I was attracted to and had interest in. I eventually met his mother and we eventually fell in love and decided to get married and have a family. One of the more fulfilling tasks in life is to commit your self to a partner and build a life together. When I was his age and older I wondered and worried if I would ever find someone that would want me and love me romantically. I can tell him that this will happen for him when the time is right. He has many wonderful qualities that will make him attractive as a potential partner and he can afford to take his time and choose someone with the best chance of forming a happy union long term. When DW and I were married we were both 25. At 25, we both felt prepared and ready to start a family together.

I let him know that to make a baby a man and a woman take off their clothes and the man puts his penis inside the woman's vagina and the penis releases sperm. This is how the sperm gets in close proximity to the egg. DS had known the basic mechanics of making a baby through the comination of sperm and an egg but it had not previously come up how the sperm got there. This is part of marriage and being a Mom and a Dad.

Fairly soon the body of Roy Jr. would start to go through some changes during puberty. His school had done a decent job of covering the physical body changes of puberty. In addition, the hormones related to puberty would start to make him interested in girls to prepare him for being a husband and father some day. In some ways his body will be that of a man. I used his sister as an example. At 13, she now has noticeable breasts and is a woman in that respect. However, she is still a minor and is far from ready to start her own family. These changes are slow and gradual and happen for different people at different times. In preparation, for a eventual roles as husband and father his body will start to make him interested in young women both romantically and sexually.

This is where we talked about pornography. Roy Jr. said that he did not know what pornography was. He knew biography and pictograph. I praised him and said that was exactly right. "Graphy" means a book or story. In this case "Porno" means pictures of naked people or sometimes people having sex that is designed to sexually excite the viewer. DS asked why people would want to look at that and I told him that it is because of those hormones that help prepare us to form families and have children. I told him that we do not have any pornography in our house but that he will see it some day. Maybe from kids at his school, maybe from something that he just finds on the ground, maybe from something on the internet. He will probably be curious and may quite like the pictures that he sees. Men tend to like to see women's bodies. This is normal and is part of his body getting him ready for a permanent romantic relationship. Much of what other kids in school might say about sex is wrong. Much of what is shown in pornography is wrong, or misleading, or not conducive to helping us form long term and fulfilling sexual partnerships and relationships. DW and I hope that when DS sees pornography or hears something about sex at school that he can tell us and we can talk about it. We will always be honest with him.

Also, that there may be some lessons at church in young men's that include references to pornography. We can talk about that too when the time comes but for now just be aware that it may happen.

In summary, He will soon begin to develop interest in girls and they will eventually start to develop interest in him. He is a great young man with a lot going for him and eventually DS will find a very special woman that he will choose to build a life and a family with. All of this is part of growing up and is completely normal. There is also a lot of misinformation out there and we hope that Roy Jr. can come talk to us whenever he has any questions.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Minyan Man » 07 Aug 2019, 20:35

That's a great way to approach the topic with your boys. How would it be different with girls?
Or would it be the same? If you don't mind, keep us informed of your progress.

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by Minyan Man » 08 Aug 2019, 17:23

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... gn/2019/08

The latest Ensign came out today. There are some interesting articles:
- Positive Body Image.
- Teaching Children about the Body.
- The Body: What Church Leaders Say.
- Choices and Happiness.
- Finding Joy in the Gift of Our Bodies. (This title made me giggle like a teenage in light of the topic we're discussing.)

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PazamaManX
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Re: Porn Addiction?

Post by PazamaManX » 22 Aug 2019, 01:39

Roy wrote:
30 Jul 2019, 11:26
My major concern is for my children. The bishop's counselor that I spoke to said in the SS meeting and to me later that he doesn't ask the boys if they have seen pornography because everyone has at one time or another - He instead asks them when was the last time that they saw pornography. :shock: :wtf: :shock: :wtf: This concerns me. I do not know the context of his statement or in what situations he might ask this question ... but I would really prefer that he never ask my son about pornography ... ever.
I would feel the same as you if I had a son. I know I wouldn't want him being asked about pornography. Who knows, it could be the thing that peaks his curiosity. You never know if an innocent mind has all of the sudden been presented with forbidden fruit that they are now curious about.

It's a shame to hear that more wards still do this. They asked me this back when I was in young men's when I was as young as 12 (I'm 25 now). It really wasn't a healthy question to ask someone that age. I wasn't someone who looked at it and never went looking for it. But still I got asked, "When was the last time you saw pornography?" Being a socially awkward 12 years old who was taught never to argue with adults, I hadn't grown any kind of a spine yet. Rather than stand up for myself and say "I don't look at porn"(which was true), I instead felt like I had to conform to his question. I made up a lie saying that it came up in pop-ups but I always X-ed out of it. Thankfully I never saw it as forbidden fruit. But I did come away feeling more like porn was a boogey man, waiting to pounce and drag someone away no matter what they did. All because of the way the question was posed to my impressionable young mind.
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness, even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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