Are we the church of the WoW?

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Mordimor
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Mordimor » 29 Aug 2019, 21:55

I found the article in the August 2019 New Era magazine. However, I am a little annoyed at how it was written or the lack of an author. The “important messages” in New Era or the Ensign normally have an author listed, so is this just an opinion editorial? Or if this is coming straight from the first presidency why doesn’t it state that? My problem really comes down to watching my MIL who had been consuming these small bars that had green tea extract in them, they made her feel good and gave her a “boost” to really get her mornings going. She has given them up, sadly according to her, because of this article.

But did the person who approved and wrote this article did they have the authority to do so? Do they hold the keys for this? Or does the first presidency authorize articles like this that could be based in opinion.

I am very much like the starter of this thread, no TR, doesn’t adhere to wow, and holds a calling. So there’s no judgement from me if you do or don’t partake. You do you.

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Heber13 » 01 Sep 2019, 11:09

I kind of think the 1st Presidency sit in a good position.

They endorse the articles that go into these church magazines so church members will take them to heart.

But the 1st Presidency can claim they didn't "write" these articles...so if later on things change...the 1st Presidency has an out.

Best of both worlds.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Daughter1
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Daughter1 » 02 Sep 2019, 14:48

This topic was on my mind as I did this week's Come Follow Me reading. On a side note, I think the Church will have only themselves to complain if those of us really embracing this new method and studying in small groups/pairs on our own (home-based church!) start finding joy in diving deep and therefore find alternative, valid, scripturaly supported, interpretations.

1 Corinthians 8:8 reads "But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse." There have been a few discussion already in Corinthians about similar topics. It boils down to the sentiment that certain laws and rules were put in place for the benefit of the weakest among us. I would think the WoW was set for those inclined to gluttony or addiction. Those who can resist the true sin/danger that is being defended against have the power to choose to live according to their own best interests. However, they should live in such a way as to not tempt or challenge those who do not have that ability. This then led to the question of how do I determine if I should follow the "safer" way? As a child, it is wise to start there. As an adult, I know that I am not inclined to develop a caffeine addiction. I possibly have a proclivity to drug or alcohol addiction, but I've not tested that other than prescriptions after surgery (and based on that have no intention to go anywhere near that.) Is it pride to look at myself then and say I don't need to follow it? I don't have an answer, it's just a thought.

The metaphor I came up with is weight loss. If you aren't needing to lose weight, but a friend is, you don't need to watch what you eat. But especially if you know they really like food, you should be supportive and not (for example) order a really rich dessert if the two of you are going out to eat. Or if they are coming over, make something healthy to share. And then you can indulge to whatever degree is healthy for you when they aren't around.
I don't think there could ever be just one single philosophy or one single religion. Since there are so many different types of people, with a range of tendencies and inclinations, it is quite fitting that there are differences between religions. And the fact that there are so many different descriptions of the religious path shows how rich religion is. - HH the XIV Dalai Lama

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DarkJedi
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Sep 2019, 15:09

Heber13 wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 11:09
I kind of think the 1st Presidency sit in a good position.

They endorse the articles that go into these church magazines so church members will take them to heart.

But the 1st Presidency can claim they didn't "write" these articles...so if later on things change...the 1st Presidency has an out.

Best of both worlds.
In the Mormonland podcast with Elder Snow a few weeks back he made the point that the essays were read and approved by each of the Q15. He thought that should have made more clear. I think you have a good hypothesis as to why that isn't the case.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Heber13
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Heber13 » 03 Sep 2019, 19:22

Daughter1 wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 14:48
The metaphor I came up with is weight loss. If you aren't needing to lose weight, but a friend is, you don't need to watch what you eat. But especially if you know they really like food, you should be supportive and not (for example) order a really rich dessert if the two of you are going out to eat. Or if they are coming over, make something healthy to share. And then you can indulge to whatever degree is healthy for you when they aren't around.
:thumbup:

I like your metaphor.

The strange thing is why God would have to tell a prophet to make common sense matters a determining factor on worthiness for essential eternal ordinances, or watching your kids getting married.

You think the church could change the question to ask an individual if they have an addiction to caffeine. If so, work on that prior to baptism. If not, it's not an issue.

I wish God would speak up on this issue. I think the leaders don't hear anything, so they just let an old rule stay as it is.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Daughter1
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Daughter1 » 04 Sep 2019, 08:16

Heber13 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 19:22
I wish God would speak up on this issue. I think the leaders don't hear anything, so they just let an old rule stay as it is.
I think this is very likely. I'm also of the opinion that they have only their own experience to guide them, so there are questions they simply don't ask to God.
I don't think there could ever be just one single philosophy or one single religion. Since there are so many different types of people, with a range of tendencies and inclinations, it is quite fitting that there are differences between religions. And the fact that there are so many different descriptions of the religious path shows how rich religion is. - HH the XIV Dalai Lama

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Rumin8
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by Rumin8 » 05 Sep 2019, 11:04

Heber13 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 19:22
I wish God would speak up on this issue. I think the leaders don't hear anything, so they just let an old rule stay as it is.
While it would be nice if the church spoke up clearly and reasonably, I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't care about stuff like this. God has bigger problems. My hypothesis is that this is 100% a thing of men. Like many other irritating "practices" in our church.

I was in a coffee shop this morning while I was waiting for some tire work to be completed on my car. While browsing the news on my phone, I noticed two high-school age girls sitting across the seating area from me enjoying a couple of mochas. While discussing their seminary classes. One of these could have been my daughter. I'm aware that she and her friends partake from time to time. The way this is going, any prospective change(s) to the WoW will be a reaction from church leaders due to a grass roots campaign (much as the Utah Medical Marijuana legislation was). The men leading the church are in danger of the tail wagging the dog on this one.

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. I know that this is a divisive issue. One thing I have learned to appreciate over the past few years is that we all have our unique journey. And each is valid.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Be excellent to each other." - Abraham Lincoln to Bill & Ted

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mom3
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Re: Are we the church of the WoW?

Post by mom3 » 08 Sep 2019, 19:55

I was reading something else and ran across the following in LDS Living -

http://www.ldsliving.com/What-a-Prophet ... &utm_campa
J.W. still agonized over this decision in discussions with Bill, who had no similar misgivings. Bill advised J.W. to consult with Church leadership, as he had in the past. This time, he would talk with 87-year-old President David O. McKay.

“As you know, Brother Marriott,” President McKay told him, “the Word of Wisdom also enjoins abstinence from the use of tobacco, except as an herb for bruises and for sick cattle. Moreover, it enjoins abstinence from the consumption of hot drinks, such as tea or coffee.”

“Yes, President, I am aware of that.”

“Well, then, I will ask you as one brother to another, suppose a sheepman, like you were, goes into a grocery store owned by a Mormon to buy supplies, and he wants cigarettes for his men. If the storekeeper says—‘Sorry, we don’t carry tobacco in any form because it’s against our religion’—why, the customer won’t come back the next time. If he wants coffee for his men and the storekeeper says—‘We disapprove of it, and we don’t want your men to drink it either’—he won’t come back again. He’ll go to the store down the street not only for his tobacco and coffee, but for everything else he needs. In the long run, this could put the storekeeper out of business, don’t you agree?”

“Yes, President, it could—very easily,” J.W. responded.

“As I see it, Brother Marriott, if you don’t satisfy your customers’ wants and needs, you could be running the same risk. If liquor today is an essential part of the service that the hotel and restaurant industry offers to its patrons, it seems to me that you’re obliged to sell it to them. To sell it to them doesn’t mean that we approve of drinking any more than to sell a gun means approval of using that gun to commit a crime.

"The patron who believes as we do is not compelled to buy liquor, nor, indeed, is anyone. But it is the patron’s life, his money, his right to decide for himself, not ours.”

President McKay cautioned J.W. against liquor sales in any family-oriented Hot Shoppes, and concluded, “It is hard sometimes to find the right path in these confusing times. But I know you will find it, and I know you will follow it.”
In answer to the Original Post question - Not always.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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