More liberal in my old age

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More liberal in my old age

Post by REBEL2 » 09 Jul 2019, 04:58

I as many of you know have come back into the church after being out almost two years. My political views changed dramatically recently after seeing things Pres Trump had done that are not in line with the gospel . I try to live by the example of the savior love thy neighbor etc etc I am the minority in my family because of this but Trump makes me sick literally . I mostly keep my political views to myself so as not to cause arguments anyone else experience this later in life ???

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Re: More liberal in my old age

Post by AmyJ » 09 Jul 2019, 05:30

I found that when the anchoring provided by my faith faltered, I found my opinions on different topics and life paths changed as well - because they had been connected to something I no longer was certain about.

I became more liberal about a lot of things, but the biggest shift was assuming there is a human (non-divine) component to how things are and came to be. I allow leaders to be human now, and recognize that the church organization (and teachings) has a strong mortal foundation, and that the pragmatic organizational motivations are just as important as the divine motivation. I no longer assume that the church is as unique as it claims to be.

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Re: More liberal in my old age

Post by Roy » 09 Jul 2019, 11:49

Let's be very careful in responding to this post. We have many members here with a wide variety of opinions on US politics and also outside perspectives of it.

Speaking only for myself, as a young Mormon I felt that that conservatives were defending faith based and family values.

As the assumptions behind some of those values came into question my desire to defend them fell to the wayside.

I now find it especially frustrating when there cannot be an open and honest discussion surrounding an issue (and this goes far beyond policy issues with a religious subtext). It seems that we are locked into an adversarial role that favors winning by seeing the opposition lose. We cut off our noses to spite our collective face! Party loyalty takes on an outsized importance. Individuals and groups surround themselves with echo chambers that insulate them from conflicting world views and, even worse, teach them that conflicting world views are the enemy. People and groups gain power and lots and lots of money by perpetuating and stoking this divide. The gaps seems to grow wider and the bridges are being burned.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Re: More liberal in my old age

Post by DarkJedi » 09 Jul 2019, 15:23

Politics per se aside, I'd say I'm more liberal in some ways (I consider myself a social moderate these days) and not so much in other ways (I consider myself a fiscal conservative and that hasn't really changed). My views on things like LGGTQ+ issues are quite different than they were 10-15 years ago.

I agree with Roy here, politics seems to have become very divisive with one side being opposed to things for no other reason than the other side is for it. Both parties are equally responsible for this in my view, and it's very sad.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Re: More liberal in my old age

Post by nibbler » 10 Jul 2019, 04:59

There's the moral foundations theory. Copying from wikipedia, the theory that differences in people's moral concerns can be described in terms of five (or six) moral foundations:
  • Care: cherishing and protecting others; opposite of harm
  • Fairness or proportionality: rendering justice according to shared rules; opposite of cheating
  • Loyalty or ingroup: standing with your group, family, nation; opposite of betrayal
  • Authority or respect: submitting to tradition and legitimate authority; opposite of subversion
  • Sanctity or purity: abhorrence for disgusting things, foods, actions; opposite of degradation
  • Liberty: (sixth) opposite of oppression
And that people that are politically conservative tend to emphasize loyalty, authority and sanctity while people that are politically liberal tend to emphasize care, fairness and liberty.

These traits don't have to be limited to the political realm. Loyalty and authority can be centered around a political ideology, a political party, a religion, a church, a family. So it might make sense that someone that transitions away from placing an emphasis on loyalty and authority in one realm (religion/church) may transition away from placing an emphasis on loyalty and authority in other realms (political ideology/party).
He who sits alone, sleeps alone, and walks alone, who is strenuous and subdues himself alone, will find delight in the solitude of the forest.
— Buddha

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