Has the church really changed

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Has the church really changed

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 Jun 2019, 06:40

Doctrine and policy have changed, in some cases radically, even recently. This is not the Church of my childhood and early adulthood in significant ways, and I am grateful for that.

That is important to recognize.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Re: Has the church really changed

Post by Gerald » 10 Jun 2019, 06:54

There have definitely been some changes but I suppose it depends on what you define as "substantive change." For some, the changes are not enough and for others, too much. I'll be honest and say (I think I may said it earlier) that I don't care much for the changes made. But that has more to do with my nature (change averse) rather than any particular issues with the adjustments themselves. It's a matter of getting used to things.
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

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Re: Has the church really changed

Post by SilentDawning » 10 Jun 2019, 08:03

nibbler wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 14:21
I hope that's the lesson people take away, that it's okay to make the church experience one that works for you without waiting around decades for the desired change to become official... if it ever comes.

That said, there are many other things about the church that no one has control over. Don't like the curriculum for PH/RS? Tough cookies. The only autonomy you have is which conference talk you read, and even then the local top down leadership decide which talk.

Yep -- I agree with the part in bold. I wish I had've said "fooey" on the one year waiting period and had a civil marriage my parents and sibs could be part of. I would have done a session with friends the day before, and if they allowed it, ask my wife get her endowments before the civil wedding and done a temple session to prove to the world we hadn't "done the nasty" before the wedding.

Then waited a year to have the sealing. There would have been a testimony in sacrament meeting where I clarified why I got temporally married first to shut down the rumors.

Anyway, as Roy said, that's old news...

Regarding the lack of control we have over things in the church. Yep, that's the state of affairs. Like everything else in life -- governments, your employer, even your family situation at times.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Re: Has the church really changed

Post by Roy » 10 Jun 2019, 17:13

I see the church changing in big and small ways. It is much like the United States in that way. There are some core principles that are very difficult to change because of the unique history of the founding of the organization. I see the right to bear arms as part of that unique United States history. The constitution affirmatively grants the right to bear arms (that has been interpreted as the right to own guns in one's home). In contrast, the right to vote is not affirmatively granted. Also, there is no right to drive - it is a privilege. Firearms is a right and has become for many a part of the culture of the USA.

Bringing this back to the church. I believe that the church (like the USA) will continue to change, but it will always be the church and will retain things that are seen as important to the identity. There are some fundamental core principles that are unique to our history and the founding of the organization. Taking away polygamy is perhaps the only example of removing a core principle. It was removed slowly over a 20 year period, it catalyzed several splinter groups, there were numerous high profile excommunications, and we as mainstream LDS still have vestiges of it swirling around us over 100 years later.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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