What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

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Cadence
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by Cadence » 09 Jun 2019, 07:32

To me it is if you require payment in order to get to heaven. Not to be confused with donating funds to any organization. All organizations need money to exist, but when you tie your eternal soul to that donation then it is priestcraft.
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Roy
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by Roy » 10 Jun 2019, 15:11

1) If this story is to be believed and Elder Oaks called this practice priestcraft then I expect he was responding to the idea of creating a priestly class. If we add some requirement of formal education in order to serve in certain callings in the church then we may be doing something similar to other churches that have theological degrees and seminaries. I would think that Elder Oaks would be responding to that specifically in labeling it priestcraft. Even though, as others have stated, having to be educated as a minister is not technically priestcraft as we have historically defined the term. I understand that we Mormons have understood the practice of ministers or priests charging a fee for performing baptisms or weddings as being priestcraft - quite literally charging money in exchange for priest work.
SilentDawning wrote:
27 May 2019, 14:54
We know that many people at the top are paid, and it seems appropriate -- how do you expect someone to work full time for the church and sustain themselves and their families? You can't, so they have to be paid.
2) I believe that the church is very careful to avoid priestcraft on an individual level. I find that the top leadership being paid a "stipend" that does not increase depending on their seniority in the hierarchy in the church is significant in this regard. It doesn't matter how many talks you give or areas conferences you preside over, the stipend is the same for everyone. The word stipend is important here because it is specifically NOT compensation for your efforts. A stipend is an amount of money to cover your expenses to free you up completely for another pursuit.
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SilentDawning
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by SilentDawning » 10 Jun 2019, 20:03

I wonder if Paul H. Dunn making up stories so he can sell books was considered Priestcraft. He was subject to some discipline as a result of that...
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DarkJedi
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by DarkJedi » 11 Jun 2019, 05:36

SilentDawning wrote:
10 Jun 2019, 20:03
I wonder if Paul H. Dunn making up stories so he can sell books was considered Priestcraft. He was subject to some discipline as a result of that...
I know a well placed guy who believes all the books written by GAs are priestcraft because the purpose of the books is to make money for the author and earn him more "fame." I can't say I totally disagree with him.
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mom3
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by mom3 » 11 Jun 2019, 10:31

I know a well placed guy who believes all the books written by GAs are priestcraft because the purpose of the books is to make money for the author and earn him more "fame." I can't say I totally disagree with him.
As a writer by profession this totally irks me. Because a lot of times those books are a compilation of talks they gave. Meaning they do get paid. I get that they need money, but most of them have 2 houses - I don't. As a person who isn't automatically famous (whether GA or Rihanna) it kind of bites that my long hours don't immediately grant me front of store coverage, etc. Now people like Lund were writing before they were GA's, so it gets grey there.

I wonder if Paul H. Dunn making up stories so he can sell books was considered Priestcraft.
I believe for him it wasn't for books, it was the delight of audiences, and likely some ego. Yes books and tapes came from it. But he was a thrill to listen to. Humourous, original, kind of a man of the people type guy, regular Joe, who just happened to know famous people. His winning gift was delivery, whether it was President Kimball breaking a bed he jumped on (then spending all night putting it back together) or making you believe he held a dying man in a fox hole. It would be the fox hole story that toppled his platform. I would say in this case less Priestcraft, and more fame driven. Let's face it - most people would love to be ardently admired. And he was.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

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Sheldon
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Re: What is Priestcraft? Is THIS Priestcraft?

Post by Sheldon » 12 Jun 2019, 13:42

If this story is true, Elder Oaks needs to be careful about evoking the spirit of Joseph Smith in this context. There would be so many reasons JS could not hold a calling in that Stake, or ANY stake in the church!

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