How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

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Heber13
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by Heber13 » 02 Jun 2019, 11:25

My question is...

Can we have love in our heart so that we can allow the church to change, to make mistakes, and be imperfect in our lives...and find it credible as it is? How much of our struggles come from expectations we want on the church to be something we want it to be or believed it to be (or was told it was and we believed what others said), moreso than accepting it for what it actually is?

Can it be seen in the light of day, warts and all, and still find it credible in my life?

I think it can be. But it isn't always credible enough to everyone. And it is ok for some people to just walk away and say it isn't enough for them, with change or without.

I'm continuing to look for the good things in the church I can bring into my life. And I find it credible. And also very flawed. It is what it is. And I find it has value for many reasons. But I won't do blind Faith or Obedience. And I think I'm ok with that relationship.

I like the changes...I am hoping for more. Not just change for the sake of appeasing others so they get more baptisms. But real change that helps bring people closer to their God.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Jun 2019, 13:09

Thanks, Heber. I think that's very profound.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

BJE
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by BJE » 02 Jun 2019, 22:43

There has been so much talk recently of change in the church with statements to the effect that we have just seen the beginning, that I was actually a little disappointed in the last conference. I was expecting some big new announcement. I’d heard many rumors of changes to the length of missions, but nothing happened. It was Conference as usual.

BJE
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by BJE » 02 Jun 2019, 23:08

As far as saying the name Mormon, a great prophet and compiler of The Book of Mormon, rather than the full name is concerned I’ve had a thought.

This is from Doctrine and Covenants 107:
2 Why the first is called the Melchizedek Priesthood is because Melchizedek was such a great high priest.
3 Before his day it was called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God.
4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Why do we still call the priesthood after Melchizedek rather than by its correct name?

nibbler
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by nibbler » 03 Jun 2019, 04:50

Every time you say Melchizedek Priesthood it's a victory for Satan. He loves hearing people mispronounce and misspell things.

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Heber13
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by Heber13 » 03 Jun 2019, 06:23

BJE wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 23:08
4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Why do we still call the priesthood after Melchizedek rather than by its correct name?
Good point. It seems at some time a person felt the name needed to be shortened to make it more practical.

At another time someone things the shortened name of the church needs to be more formal to reinforce the name and purpose.

And it can be credible either way. As long as the prophets get people to see the purpose for changes and course corrections.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Roy
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by Roy » 03 Jun 2019, 10:25

BJE wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 23:08
Why do we still call the priesthood after Melchizedek rather than by its correct name?
I think we (and I include myself in this) find reasons for doing what we want to do or to make us feel better about what we have already done.

I personally have been overjoyed with so many of the recent changes, I tend to give President RMN a pass on this one. Still a decent batting average, all things considered.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SilentDawning
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Re: How much can the church change yet still remain credible?

Post by SilentDawning » 03 Jun 2019, 19:24

Roy wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 10:25
BJE wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 23:08
Why do we still call the priesthood after Melchizedek rather than by its correct name?
I think we (and I include myself in this) find reasons for doing what we want to do or to make us feel better about what we have already done.

I personally have been overjoyed with so many of the recent changes, I tend to give President RMN a pass on this one. Still a decent batting average, all things considered.
Agreed. He hasn't been blinded by faith in my view. It took courage to cancel the HT program, for example. I hope someone else doesn't take his place eventually and play hard-nut with us...
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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