Re: A Woman in a Man's Church
Posted: 17 May 2019, 08:37
Discussing Alternate Ways to Stay In the Church
IMO, whether we believe Paul, believe in God, don't know, or believe there is no God, Paul's ideal resonates through the centuries; we are all of equal worth and goodness.ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I don't think there's disagreement between these statements and what Robert Greene was asserting (nor what I've been saying). The only clarification is that when we are encouraged / forced / shamed into repressing parts of our natural traits, there are negative consequences (I used the term "toxic" because the term is prevalent in gender discussions, but it wasn't specifically his term). The more extreme this suppression, the more extreme the negative consequences. The less well suited we are to the roles we are forced to play, the more we will resent those roles.On Own Now wrote: ↑17 May 2019, 10:40I don't believe that either "masculine" or "feminine" traits are inherently better or closer to God. Therefore people who have primarily masculine traits (mostly, but not exclusively men) and people who have primarily feminine traits (mostly, but not exclusively women) all bring important social and individual elements of themselves to our shared world. Are traits such as these elevated or suppressed by gender roles and narratives during upbringing? Yes. Are they also part of our natural makeup before our environments affect them? I believe yes and I allow that others will disagree.
I don't know what movement you are talking about here, nor what group you are saying this movement is belittling. The post is about a book that describes childhood development as relates to gender roles. It's not talking about any movement, and I didn't find anything in the chapter belittling to any groups."I cannot support a movement that belittles another group in order to further their cause."
I can't defend of decry Greene's description as by very nature, any male organization I'm in is one I can't see that closely, being a woman. But I have seen some of these trends in male organizations. I have also seen some of the trends of female organizations he describes. If I were to describe the female organizations I would have said "indecisive and too focused on feelings to achieve results," a negative descriptor. But to your point we really don't encounter many organizations that are all one way or the other since they tend to be a mix of both styles. The church is, IMO, the closest I've seen to the male descriptors. My time in corporate was much more a mix of both."I find this to be a gross exaggeration of the way that men work within structured organizations as a way to advance achievement. It conforms with what I have heard on this site many times, that men "need" hierarchy."
I wasn't refering to the book. That's a very old theory, and I agree with the premise.
http://roykealing.weebly.com/uploads/1/ ... _brain.pdf"The single most powerful statement to come out of brain research in the last twenty-five years is this:
We are as different from one another on the inside of our heads as we appear to be different from one another on the outside of our heads.
Look around and see the infinite variety of human heads—skin, hair, age, ethnic characteristics, size, color, and shape. And know that on the inside such differences are even greater—what we know, how we learn, how we process information, what we remember and forget, our strategies for functioning and coping.
Add to that the understanding that the “world” out “there” is as much a projection from inside our heads as it is a perception, and pretty soon you are up against the realization that it is a miracle that we are communicating at all. It is almost unbelievable that we are dealing with the same reality. We operate on a kind of loose consensus about existence at best.
From a practical point of view, day by day, this kind of information makes me a little more patient with the people I live with. I am less inclined to
protest, “Why don’t you see it the way I do?” and more inclined to say, “You see it that way? Holy cow! How amazing!”"
- Robert Fulghum It was on Fire When I Lay Down on it