Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

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SamBee
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by SamBee » 14 May 2019, 04:28

Codependent wrote:
13 May 2019, 23:07
Sorry this may not be terribly relevant. I remember right after the revelation granting black people the priesthood the Church News editorial (Mconkie, I believe) was about the folly of interracial marriage. I don’t remember how often or long such counsel persisted, or even that it did publicly. But there was obviously concern by some about controlling the long term impact of the shift. Now interracial marriages may not be overtly encouraged but neither is it overtly, publicly discouraged. I think given time some sort of hybrid wedding will evolve for many. It will be interesting to see what the definitions of simple and extravagant become.
Why should interracial marriages be encouraged (or discouraged)? People should marry the person they're comfortable with, not the one someone else prescribes.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
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grobert93
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by grobert93 » 14 May 2019, 06:12

SamBee wrote:
14 May 2019, 04:28
Codependent wrote:
13 May 2019, 23:07
Sorry this may not be terribly relevant. I remember right after the revelation granting black people the priesthood the Church News editorial (Mconkie, I believe) was about the folly of interracial marriage. I don’t remember how often or long such counsel persisted, or even that it did publicly. But there was obviously concern by some about controlling the long term impact of the shift. Now interracial marriages may not be overtly encouraged but neither is it overtly, publicly discouraged. I think given time some sort of hybrid wedding will evolve for many. It will be interesting to see what the definitions of simple and extravagant become.
Why should interracial marriages be encouraged (or discouraged)? People should marry the person they're comfortable with, not the one someone else prescribes.
There has been rumors, scriptures and prophetic talks floating around about not mixing races as it was considered a sin or blasphemy in the bible. I understand the medical concerns with two people from different countries mixing their genes and therefore any diseases that each other's bodies may not have the immunizations for, yet. A lot of it is also just racism. It still takes people time to accept someone of darker skin. I have family that is still racist despite laws and cultural changes that have accepted people for their skills and personality over their skin color. I guess it's just church culture mixed with sudo-doctrine that has resulted in no racial mixed marriages.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by SilentDawning » 14 May 2019, 06:58

Roy wrote:
13 May 2019, 09:46
The church has every right to make requests that influence the culture and practices of the membership. That is what churches do!
Yep, they do. Many are great, wonderful changes. Some are not. Many are phrased as invitations, some are punctuated with punitive, temporal punishments for non-compliance that seem to go beyond what is necessary, appropriate, or even kind and fitting.

It's up to us to set boundaries and not let them reach too far -- because, as we've seen in the past -- they WILL over-reach at times. I did it as a priesthood leader with some initiatives and expectations I put foward to my quorum. So I guess I need to cut them slack as their "sins" were my "sins" at one time, but on a local scale.

But their overreaching has also caused me a lot of misery. So, I think each person needs to claim their free agency and yes, set boundaries where necessary. Given Roy's observation that influencing behavior is what churches do.
Last edited by SilentDawning on 14 May 2019, 07:49, edited 3 times in total.
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AmyJ
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by AmyJ » 14 May 2019, 07:08

When I was a teenager (20 years ago in a land far, far, away), my father and I had an conversation about it. My father recommended that people entering mixed race marriages would need to be aware that there would be more cross-cultural issues to resolve because of combining the 2 cultures through marriage. He also pointed out that marriage is at the heart of it, a process to combine 2 cultures, but that non-mixed race marriages had more overlap to be comfortable in.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by DarkJedi » 14 May 2019, 15:31

Unfortunately not so long ago and in this very galaxy mixed race marriages in the church were more than discouraged. Make no mistake, the changes we are seeing today are absolutely meant to distance the church from those egregious teachings of a none-too-soon to be bygone era. (And don't worry about your food storage either.)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Daughter1
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by Daughter1 » 14 May 2019, 20:24

thegreythinker wrote:
08 May 2019, 14:46
I'm so happy about this change.

It's been my dream to have a civil wedding, (even before my faith crisis) but I didn't feel like I could until now.

Now couples can choose how many people they want to invite or none at all to their sealing. Instead, they can invite most of their friends and family to a wedding ceremony.
As another single woman, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

I didn't find out about this change until my mom came into town at the end of last week. She got to tell me and I am sure she can share my reaction better than I can. I was happier than words could tell. I haven't said anything here until now because we've been having fun, but she's back home now, so I wanted to come and celebrate.

Before I jump in, I want to acknowledge the hurt that people who didn't get to take advantage of this policy change must feel. I watched every one of my close friends get married without being able to attend, with one exception last summer - and that was a sealing after the year, not a full "wedding." Two of my friends were unable to have their parents with them. Most of them had most or all of their siblings outside. I have been part of that and have been hurt by it. Knowing my dad couldn't attend my wedding has been one of the hardest things of processing his faith transition.

That said, I think this thread has been sadly negative. Since many of the people on the site are already married, I guess that makes some sense. I want to share how I feel - to highlight the joy that this announcement brought me.

1. My dad can be at my wedding. As can my sister and brother. And no one will question. It won't cause sideways looks or rumors about my own "worthiness." I had made up my mind sometime fairly recently (by which I mean the past year or two) that I would push for a civil ceremony first and deal with the waiting period. I also at about the same time realized I wasn't all that dead-set on marrying a member, which would make the question totally moot. But if I marred a TR-holding member, I was going to push to get sealed on our first anniversary instead of right away. Now that discussion will be much easier, should the day arrive. "I want my dad at my wedding - we are having a civil ceremony." And the hypothetical fiance will have no valid reason to disagree.

2. As I move into the realm of dating non-members, I do so with no intention of expecting them to convert to Mormonism in order to continue a relationship. However, I do intend to ask them to take the full missionary discussions. Not with the intent to convert, but simply to understand where I am coming from. This does come with the "risk" as it were, of them coming to believe in the church (since that's the goal of the missionaries) and deciding to be baptized for their own reasons. Just as I would never try to coerce someone into joining the church, I would never try to stop them joining if they so choose. With this new policy, we could have a civil ceremony in the religious tradition they were brought up in, and a sealing after. Which I think would be a really cool way to include their family. (I am not seeing anyone - I just have a very vivid imagination. I have, in the past few days, considered the possibilities of both a Jewish and a Hindu wedding ceremony.)

3. While there will still be people who judge those who choose a civil ceremony first, there will now be so many reasons to do so that it will be less intrusive feeling. I remember when a friend of mine was married civilly instead of in the temple, I wondered why. I couldn't help it. I really didn't care, but I still wondered. Now, the default assumption won't be sin/unworthy/unrighteous/etc. The default (I hope at least) will be "someone important can't attend the temple." It will be a lot harder at most weddings to identify that "one" person, especially as for most people, it will probably be more than one.

4. I'm going to have a wedding party. At a temple wedding, bridesmaids really don't do much. But now my sister and my two best friends can actually participate in my wedding. Even though two of the three have active TR, there isn't anything for them to do. And one of them has little kids, so it's tricky. This would be easier. And more fun.

5. I have wanted to write my own vows for years. Ever since I realized my dad wouldn't be at a temple wedding, that was part of my plan. For my "ring ceremony" or my civil ceremony, when I started to consider that, I wanted to write my own vows. For a ring ceremony, you are explicitly told not to exchange vows. No one can stop me now. I can write flowery, personal, special, silly, dorky, intimate, memorable vows if I want to. And I do.

6. My friends can all come. My brother is hitting the age where his friends are pairing off and starting to get married. They aren't LDS, so he has been able to attend the weddings. I couldn't even do that. It was really hard for me to miss out, and more so as each one got married and was able to attend the next wedding. I didn't even go to the temple for a couple of them because it wasn't worth the effort to get to town. I don't have many friends who couldn't attend a temple wedding, but I don't want to leave even one out, because it's so much harder to be the only one outside.

7. I can choose my venue. I am not a fan of cultural halls. As was mentioned earlier, they are free, and that is still a really nice feature. Depending on where I am in life, I still may go that way. But I have been admiring an event center for several years, wishing it could be where I have my reception. And that's a lot of money for a reception. It feels more justifiable if I have the entire wedding there.

Basically, I'm over the moon. I'm sad for the past: for the weddings I've missed and those who couldn't have loved ones with them. But I'm far more excited for the future.
I don't think there could ever be just one single philosophy or one single religion. Since there are so many different types of people, with a range of tendencies and inclinations, it is quite fitting that there are differences between religions. And the fact that there are so many different descriptions of the religious path shows how rich religion is. - HH the XIV Dalai Lama

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SilentDawning
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by SilentDawning » 16 May 2019, 21:50

As one of the angry negative people earlier, what is good about this is that my TBM daughter volunteered that she would have had a civil wedding first if she had've had the choice. In the past, we couldn't talk about that because it would have been perceived as being negative on church policy. Now that it's been put forward as a change and its acceptable to have a civil wedding first, she is openly talking about what she would have done.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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mom3
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by mom3 » 20 May 2019, 11:30

I didn't find out about this change until my mom came into town at the end of last week. She got to tell me and I am sure she can share my reaction better than I can. I was happier than words could tell.
Over the Moon - would be an understatement. Eternal Christmas arrived when I told her.

She's usually up on things. This time I was the bringer of good news.

A few days earlier I had gotten to share it with her dad.

All of us are thrilled.

But like her, and so many others, our family history is littered with broken Temple Marriage experiences. Parents, grandparents, siblings and dear friends who could not attend. Even one mother who chose not to attend because her husband couldn't get a recommend because he drank coffee. We are mindful of the pain these stories (and all the other ones like them) are experiencing.

It was a blast to be the bearer of good news. Next time we will video and share.

And yes - Daughter1 belongs to Mom3
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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