Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 May 2019, 11:10

I truly am ecstatic about the change. I don't care why they changed it, ultimately. I just am happy it has been changed.

Having said that, the most heart-wrenching response I have read was, "I am glad this has changed, but I wish it had changed three weeks ago when I got sealed."

That hits home hard, since I am in Utah this week for a daughter's sealing. My second son and his wife couldn't make the trip, but it wouldn't have mattered last week, since they don't have current temple recommends. It suddenly matters now, even though they can't be here. Our youngest daughter will be here, and she won't be able to attend the sealing. We tend to forget about the younger kids in all of this.

I am ecstatic this has changed, but I wish it had changed a few weeks ago, so my daughter could have considered a civil wedding her younger sister could have attended. Despite that, I refuse to be upset over a wonderful change.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by DarkJedi » 06 May 2019, 11:22

Another wonderful change that I am fully on board with. It's about time! :thumbup:
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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LookingHard
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by LookingHard » 06 May 2019, 11:47

On Own Now wrote:
06 May 2019, 09:31
Seriously, though. How awesome that the Church is seeing past "because that's the way it's always been" and is trying to have less collateral damage with its policies.
Is this really good. I too am one of those "convert families" that I and my siblings had to exclude virtually our entire extended family from me and my siblings marriages. My grandparents/cousins/aunts/uncles have never said anything, but I sure felt they were hurt/bothered and it has put a bit of distance between us that is still there today.

I have seen some chats about this being announce was to distract from the negative press coming from the Vice episode released a few days ago that focused on how the church responds to sex abuse. Not sure, but it is a normal PR strategy to pull the limelight away from the negative.

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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by nibbler » 06 May 2019, 12:25

SilentDawning wrote:
06 May 2019, 09:35
Extremely conflicted.
I feel you SD.

I had no family members present at my marriage/sealing. Given the logistics and the mindset of prioritizing the temple sealing, I can't say that it would have gone any differently had the policy not been in place when I was married. We still had to get sealed far away from where family lived. We still had a ring ceremony for family when we got back.

I don't remember being cognizant of the policy back then, meaning I bet many couples going forward will still make plans that favor marrying inside the temple, irregardless of who it leaves on the outside looking in.

I feel you.

The challenge... the policy needed to change. 20 years ago, 20 years from now, whenever it changed it was going to hurt, especially knowing there will be no formal recognition of the real pain the policy caused. The only solace is that this particular policy will now hurt less people.

That seems to be the way these things go in highly authoritarian organizations. If you want change and you're not in a position of authority, you're in the wrong. The change is only seen as the right thing to do once someone in a position of authority gives people permission for it to be the right thing.

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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by nibbler » 06 May 2019, 12:28

LookingHard wrote:
06 May 2019, 11:47
I have seen some chats about this being announce was to distract from the negative press coming from the Vice episode released a few days ago that focused on how the church responds to sex abuse. Not sure, but it is a normal PR strategy to pull the limelight away from the negative.
I feel that's overly cynical... even for me. ;)

Maybe another scandal will break so they can be forced into announcing some other long anticipated change that they're sitting on.

ahh... there, I'm back. Balance restored. :P

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 May 2019, 12:35

People can see reasons and excuses in everything. Conjecture flows from individual perspectives, and negative explanations for positive actions always will be put forward as reasons to complain about and reject positive actions. Frankly, I flat-out refuse to play that speculation game. All it does is entrench negativism and cynicism, even when truly wonderful changes are made. I feel for those who suffered in the past as a result of the policy, but I will not be mad that others don't have to suffer in the same way now - and I flat-out refuse to look for speculative reasons to dismiss a wonderful thing.

This is a great change. Everyone here wanted it, based on previous posts and comments about it. If we say we want something to happen, we ought not complain or dismiss it when it does happen. That is true about pretty much any relationship, whether it be organizational or personal.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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dande48
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by dande48 » 06 May 2019, 13:43

nibbler wrote:
06 May 2019, 12:25
The challenge... the policy needed to change. 20 years ago, 20 years from now, whenever it changed it was going to hurt, especially knowing there will be no formal recognition of the real pain the policy caused. The only solace is that this particular policy will now hurt less people.
I'm in the boat of wishing it happened even a couple years soon. I'm glad it happened.

Maybe this goes back to other topics on this forum, but I can't help but feel no matter how many changes are made, it doesn't change the underlying truth or validity of the Church. If this change had happened sooner, would it have made it easier for me to remain active and believing? Absolutely. But it's never been about policy for me, and retrospectively I don't feel this improves my opinion much. Don't get me wrong, it's still a wonderful thing! But so were facebook's policy changes on how they handle user data, and I'm still not getting back on board.
LookingHard wrote:
06 May 2019, 11:47
I have seen some chats about this being announce was to distract from the negative press coming from the Vice episode released a few days ago that focused on how the church responds to sex abuse. Not sure, but it is a normal PR strategy to pull the limelight away from the negative.
While I don't think so, I completely get the cynicism. I have a hard time believing there is anything the Church wouldn't do, if they thought it'd increase membership conversion and retention rates. Sometimes the best way to do that (as all companies know), is to do things that make your customers happy. But being "happy" isn't always in the best interest of the customer, especially when there have been other shenanigans going on since the beginning.

Or like in grade school, when a bully comes up to you and apologizes and hands you a cupcake... it might be a fine cupcake. They might be genuinely sorry. But I wouldn't blame anyone if their knee-jerk reaction in "Why are you being nice to me? What's your angle?! What are you trying to pull?!"
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by mom3 » 06 May 2019, 14:36

We tend to forget about the younger kids in all of this.
This was one of my double struggles 30+ years ago. Grandparents that I loved could not attend. But I'd grown up with that. My mom, their only child, married in the temple. They didn't even go to the building and wait.

But when it came time and my 4 year old sister and my dearest baby brother (just 2 years younger than me) couldn't come - even though I knew it all my life - it stung. We knew it happened for everyone, but somehow on the day "my entire family' wasn't in the room that was supposed to mimic all of eternity.

For my siblings alone, if this choice had been available, I would have taken it. Then done the sealing as a date night.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by DarkJedi » 06 May 2019, 15:46

Like others here, I am a convert who married in the temple with no family present. I am one of six children, my wife is one of seven. Only her mother is a member and she was the only relative on either side present in the temple. Do I believe this hurt some in my family and hers? Absolutely. I honestly didn't like it myself and my wife and I did discuss marrying and going to the temple a year later but TBMs that we were decided against it. We did put on a very nice "program" in the chapel prior to our reception. Our bishop and the SP both spoke. That was then,this is now, 'twas I but 'tis not I. I have moved past it and now I can rejoice with those who rejoice that others will not have to make this choice. Am I upset about all those third hours I spent at church over the years? Nope, I've put my behind in the past. Am I sorry for those who were hurt by the gay policy? Yes, but I now rejoice for those who will no longer suffer.

We've complained so long about the culture and tradition of the church and how these things will "never" change. Alas, times they are a changin. Doctrine is not what many people thought it was. I'm with Curt here. We want change and want change of things we thought wouldn't change and now those things are changing. Now we complain about the change.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: Sealing waiting period policy discontinued

Post by Roy » 06 May 2019, 15:46

SilentDawning wrote:
06 May 2019, 10:17
So, the main reason appears to be family unity. But only family unity at the immediate level. If the single temple ceremony will cause disharmony among grandparents, or aunts and uncles, then the policy doesn't apply. I wish it said it was at the preference of the couple for reasons of harmony. Granted, nothing is stopping a couple from phrasing their concerns about parental or immediate familial discontent with a temple-only marriage in a way that justifies it, even when immediate family members are OK with either kind of wedding.
I read a comment over at BCC that I believe to be a good reading of the new policy:
the line about separate ceremonies being “authorized” under certain circumstances, on my reading, is only a limitation to the instruction that bishops “encourage” couples not to separate the civil ceremony from the sealing. As I read it, couples are allowed to separate the ceremonies under any circumstances they feel is appropriate, and bishops are to encourage them not to, unless it would exclude a parent or immediate family member, but are not to impose a waiting period where the couple is otherwise meeting the standards for having a temple recommend.
Therefore, in SD's example above, if grandparents, aunts, and uncles wish for a civil wedding in order that they may attend the bishop will likely "encourage" the TR holding couple to get married in the temple. However, if the TR holding couple decide to push forward (against the encouragement of the bishop) with a civil ceremony to be followed by a temple sealing then the bishop is not to impose any sort of punishment or waiting period for the couple's personal decision in this matter.
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