My Best & Worst List

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hawkgrrrl
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My Best & Worst List

Post by hawkgrrrl » 17 Apr 2019, 16:47

I did a post on the ideas and other features that I really love about Mormonism that you can't find in other religions, as well as those that I think are the pits. Here's a link: https://wheatandtares.org/2019/04/17/th ... mormonism/

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SamBee
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by SamBee » 17 Apr 2019, 17:49

My take:

Good:
* Eternal families: this is a really good defence against bereavement.

* Personal revelation, open canon

* i like the range of speakers at church (although to be fair this is found elsewhere)

* Priesthood is spread across the membership (but women...)

Neutral:

* Living prophet... This means absolute devotion on the one hand and on the other potential to iron out the creases in church policy. (By the way Muslims consider Adam a prophet too)

* Polygamy - more controversially I'll put this here. Why? I feel it is part of the past, not really the present. (Except fringe sects) I'm well aware of it but it's not part of my church life.

* Theosis: positive in its outlook of humans and negative in terms of creating arrogance.

* Heavenly Mother: this concept is so underdeveloped in our theology it's hard to say much about her.

Bad
* Correlation. We're on the same page!

" Emphasis on authority and top down hierarchy.

* An overburden of doctrine. We have a lot. Which to use?

* Pressure to marry, serve mission etc.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by nibbler » 17 Apr 2019, 18:44

There's theory and there's practice. We have the theory of open canon but I haven't seen us leverage that. To put it into perspective, the CoC is up to section 165 in their D&C and has updates as recent as 2016. We've got the pseudo-scripture of tFaPttW.

Maybe it's semantics. Many sections in the CoC's D&C could best be described as policy changes. We've had lots of policy changes more recently but most changes are chronicled in handbooks, some private, none considered scriptural.

I know what DFU and a few other leaders have said recently about the restoration being ongoing but I think for the longest time leaders have operated with this idea that Joseph restored the church. He was the prophet of the restoration. Any new doctrines have got to go back to something revealed during his tenure as church president. Even one of the more recent changes to call the church by its proper name is rooted in revelation received by Joseph.

So open canon... it feels like we opened the door a crack, let a few more things in, then slammed the door shut again. IMO correlation has contributed to that. It has us looking backwards, not forwards.

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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by nibbler » 17 Apr 2019, 18:58

And now I wonder... would I want a more open canon? I bet the first thing that would go into a newly open canon would be the proclamation.

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SamBee
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by SamBee » 18 Apr 2019, 02:28

nibbler wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 18:58
And now I wonder... would I want a more open canon? I bet the first thing that would go into a newly open canon would be the proclamation.
Well it is still theoretically open. At least one section - OD2 (1978) was added in living memory.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by DarkJedi » 18 Apr 2019, 03:52

nibbler wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 18:58
And now I wonder... would I want a more open canon? I bet the first thing that would go into a newly open canon would be the proclamation.
There are still those who believe everything said in GC and everything in the Ensign is scripture.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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AmyJ
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by AmyJ » 18 Apr 2019, 05:45

Here are my thoughts:

GOOD:
Our Treatment of Eve in the Garden of Eden
Start in the Community/Networking - I am grateful for the script that allows me to show up at church and have a foot-in-the-door friendship wise.
Open Cannon Concept
Duality of Individual Revelation line and Organization Revelation line - While this creates paradoxes whenever they come into conflict, and people usually disagree to what degree to privilege a specific line, at least we recognize both lines of revelation.

MEH:
Modesty Lessons
Gender Roles - I feel that the church organization is in the process of evaluating and expanding on how women can serve in the church and in giving them more spaces to voice their opinion in. I feel that there is a long way to go in equalizing authority in the church and home.

BAD:
Executive Functioning in Church - Not only is it divided by gender (for example, my father got weird looks from his quorum when he worked with his home teaching companion to prepare and take over a meal to one of the brethren he ministers to), but I feel that there is hand-waving going on between the genders regarding what executive functioning looks like. I have seen and heard about sisters tuning out during Priesthood lessons (which is fine as far as it goes) - and while I have an idea what the priesthood responsibilities of maintaining the buildings, giving blessings, passing the sacrament looks like, I know that I don't know about all the executive functioning that goes on behind the scenes in leadership meetings for the brethren. I believe that the brethren do not comprehend what goes into running the church community gatherings (potluck organizing, funeral luncheons, etc.). I feel that the focus on admonishing the sisters in September to run the Home Supported Program without a similar message for the brethren sends a clear message that this executive functioning responsibility gets dumped in the sisters' lap.
Last edited by AmyJ on 18 Apr 2019, 06:03, edited 1 time in total.

nibbler
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by nibbler » 18 Apr 2019, 05:57

I'll keep mine short.

GOOD:
When there's an actual need people generally mobilize to help.

MEH:
Our Sunday meetings. I don't feel like they meet my spiritual or social needs. Listening to our activation efforts, the principle reason to show up on Sunday is because "we're supposed to." That's not a very good reason.

BAD:
Obsession with worthiness. Holding worthiness interviews. Temple recommend status. Pigeonholing people into a label - investigator, convert, inactive, worthy, not in good standing, etc.

I see a lot of good people suffering because they believe they are not good enough. Perfection is the enemy of good.

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dande48
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by dande48 » 18 Apr 2019, 06:27

Good:
-Focus on service
-Focus on the family
-Rituals
-Inherent worth of the individual
-Uchtdorf, Christofferson, Holland

Meh:
-Open canon (GC talks are generally accepted as "canon")
-Public work projects (housing, retail developments, beautification projects)
-Ministering program

Bad:
-Obsession with "truth"
-Obsession with Church leaders, especially the prophet
-Determining "truth" through "feelings of the spirit"
-Worthiness (you can have "worth" but not be "worthy"?)
-Pious fraud
-Judgement of "others"
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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dande48
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Re: My Best & Worst List

Post by dande48 » 18 Apr 2019, 06:28

nibbler wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 18:58
And now I wonder... would I want a more open canon? I bet the first thing that would go into a newly open canon would be the proclamation.
Last I checked, the proclamation was canon.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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