I'm going to jail!

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Katzpur
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Location: Salt Lake City

Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Katzpur » 19 Nov 2018, 08:55

Minyan Man wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 19:50
Excellent. I want to hear more, please.
And you undoubtedly will -- probably every Sunday. I haven't been this excited about a calling in... oh, about 70 years.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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SamBee
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by SamBee » 19 Nov 2018, 12:01

Clickbait! :lol:

We have a ward member who helps run AA in prison. I admire the people who can do these things. I have no experience of jails. I have visited friends in secure wards which is the nearest thing I suppose.

I've got to ask the obvious... do you get any protection from any potential trouble?

Good on you though. I think these guys do need support. I wouldn't want to be in their position. I think some of them need healing as much as punishment.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Roy
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Roy » 19 Nov 2018, 13:04

I am fond of saying that our local district of Toastmasters international has the greatest percentage of incarcerated members of any other district! :lol: We sponsor a number of "prison clubs". The people in these clubs are some of the most motivated and dedicated members.

Above everything else, people in prison are human beings with feelings and stories.

Redemption and other gospel topics can be much more relevant in a prison setting.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by DarkJedi » 19 Nov 2018, 13:08

There are definitely people who believe their "calling" or "ministry" (using the terms as Protestants might) is working with those who are in jail/prison. Although I think the meaning is broader than this and not necessarily "concrete," I do think "And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you? And the king will answer them, Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me" applies.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Katzpur
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Katzpur » 19 Nov 2018, 18:55

SamBee wrote:
19 Nov 2018, 12:01
I've got to ask the obvious... do you get any protection from any potential trouble?
We're in a small room with a glass wall that is adjacent to a much larger room where there are guards and cameras into all of the cells and into the room we're using.
Good on you though. I think these guys do need support. I wouldn't want to be in their position. I think some of them need healing as much as punishment.
I suspect you're right. I think that we may be teaching in maximum security next week, and if we are, that will definitely be interesting as we teach through the bars of their cells.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

Curt Sunshine
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Curt Sunshine » 19 Nov 2018, 21:37

This makes my own heart swell. I am SO happy for you.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Minyan Man
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Minyan Man » 18 Dec 2018, 09:34

Sis Katpur, any updates? Please fill us in on what's happening when you can.

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Katzpur
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Location: Salt Lake City

Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Katzpur » 23 Dec 2018, 18:03

An update...

If anybody ever wants to release me from this calling, they're going to have to excommunicate me. :shock:

We've been at the jail for six weeks now, shadowing other teachers for the first three weeks, for two weeks on our own, and today, Christmas caroling with other teachers. So far, it has far exceeded my expectations. This is the first time in literally years that I have not dreaded Sundays. When we're in minimum or medium security, we generally teach anywhere from about four to twelve men at once. We start out with an opening prayer, offered by an inmate (one of them always volunteers) and a song. There is a recorder with about two dozen songs on it and we pass out a sheet containing the words. We allow the inmates to choose the song. Almost always, it's either, "Did You Think to Pray?" or "I Am a Child of God." They sing; they don't just mumble the words.

The lessons are on the basics of the gospel -- the Plan of Salvation, the Atonement, Adversity, Repentance, etc. We've been moving around a bit to get the feel of things, but starting in January, we'll be teaching in the same cell block for six weeks in a row (actually, one hour in one cell block and another in another cell block). We've done most of our teaching during our two weeks on our own in maximum security. Wow. Talk about a spiritual experience. Here, we do the praying. The men seem to want it this way, and we don't have any singing. We give an abbreviated message and just chat with them about life in general.

I am blown away by their appreciation for us. It's like nothing I've ever known in any other calling. Some of them seem pretty hardened; others seem completely out-of-place there. Our entire purpose from what I've gathered, is to give these men hope, and to let them know that God hasn't stopped loving them because of what they may have done. It's really hard to express what a phenomenal experience this is proving to be, but I am loving every minute of it. The only negative so far is that the no-touch policy prohibits us from even shaking their hands, and there are a few of them that I want to just give a big hug and say, "Think of this as being from your mom."
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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SamBee
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Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by SamBee » 24 Dec 2018, 05:57

Katzpur wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 18:03
Here, we do the praying. The men seem to want it this way, and we don't have any singing. We give an abbreviated message and just chat with them about life in general.
You probably know this already, but from what I've been told by people who have spent time in jail, it's often a good thing not to stick your neck out. So many of these men are perhaps afraid that if they pray aloud they will be exposing themselves to mockery or gossip around the block.

I know someone who was educated and went to jail. In his case, his education was a bonus, so he could stick his neck out. But that was for writing letters for other people etc. That's probably the exception.
(Contemporary English Version)
Then the king will say to those on his right, “My father has blessed you! Come and receive the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world was created. 35 When I was hungry, you gave me something to eat, and when I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I was a stranger, you welcomed me, 36 and when I was naked, you gave me clothes to wear. When I was sick, you took care of me, and when I was in jail, you visited me.”

37 Then the ones who pleased the Lord will ask, “When did we give you something to eat or drink? 38When did we welcome you as a stranger or give you clothes to wear 39 or visit you while you were sick or in jail?”

40The king will answer, “Whenever you did it for any of my people, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did it for me.”
I posted elsewhere on a Youtube video, I was almost a school shooter,

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9262

There are a few relevant quotes in that video which I think apply here as well
When someone treats you as a person when you don't feel like a human, it changes your entire world
"Love the ones you feel deserve it the least because they need it the most"
While I think there are those who have put themselves well beyond help, or as far as they can from it, there are also many who have been treated badly since the beginning. Most prisoners tend to have had abusive childhoods, bad backgrounds or just got mixed up in the right thing. I know why some of these people are being punished - I get that - but that also many of them never get true rehabilitation or the chance to get into a better life again.

I hope the prison you visit at also teaches art. There's been some positive developments from exposing prisoners to art, although again, not all take to it.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Minyan Man
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I'm going to jail!

Post by Minyan Man » 13 Mar 2019, 14:51

Katzpur, PLEASE report back. You promised.

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