New Sunday Worship

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mom3
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by mom3 » 16 Oct 2018, 15:55

I have such a fantasy about my perfect Sacrament Meeting - It's dang scary.

On a less scary note - My ward has been having more Christ or scripture focused Sacrament Meetings for the past 6 months. It does make a difference. Not every talk is great, but we've stepped up away from lectures. I like it.

I do hope music is still part of the process. We have as super small choir, but even a piano solo of a hymn is so helpful for meditation and reflection.

For me - I wish the Sacrament time was longer. I love the weeks, when we finished singing the hymn, but the bread is still being prepared, so the organist plays and we just sit. We are such a busy church. I love it about us. But Jesus took time to be apart, to have personal time with his Father/Parents. I like when we can do that.

Other churches chapels are available during the week if someone wants to have quiet communion with God. Only people who have keys can do that in our church. Usually those people are super busy and you can't borrow the keys.

Those are my calmer, more realistic wishes. I do like the direction this portends toward.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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nibbler
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by nibbler » 16 Oct 2018, 16:21

Random thought time.

Sacrament could be towards the beginning of the meeting so the bishopric can adjust the time on the back end to ensure the meeting ends on time. Like if there were a baby blessing and there were 50 more people visiting so passing the sacrament took more time. Or it's a three day weekend and a full third of the members are on holiday so passing the sacrament takes less time. Or the BP makes the priest say the blessing 8 times. Having sacrament at the beginning allows the bishop to pad SM out or shorten it such that the meeting ends at roughly the 80 minute mark (too long, so :thumbup: from me for reducing the meeting to 60 minutes).

If they did sacrament at the end they'd have to have a cutoff point, leave 15 minutes for the sacrament at the end and they may go over or under the allotted time some weeks. Probably not a big deal though.

I know in our ward our meeting will start, I'll look around and hardly anyone is there. "Why are we opening the overflow? There's like 40 people here." But by the time sacrament starts there are over 200 people. Mormon Standard Time, excuse me, The Only True and Living Church Upon the Face of the Whole Earth, With Which I, the Lord, am Well Pleased, Speaking Unto the Church Collectively and Not Individually of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Standard Time. aka at least 15 minutes after you were supposed to have arrived. Hey, I get it. Parents have got to get all the kids ready to go and I bet half the parents have to spend several minutes each Sunday fighting their kids to make them to go as they drag their feet all morning in an effort to delay the day's proceedings.

There's the ordering of when the sacrament is passed during SM, there's also ordering in the sense of where SM falls in the block.

I've been in some units that held SM last. PH/RS was first, then SS, then SM. This was mostly because there was a major issue of people not getting to church on time, the ward/branch gradually trickled in during the first two hours but were present by the time sacrament started.

I've also attended churches for other religions. They typically hold their SS hour first and the main event last. Our church is like when the climax of a movie is in the wrong place. Remember in Lord of the Rings where there was an obvious climax, the movie was done, and then there was a whole other two hours? That's our church.

Granted SS is very sparsely attended in those other churches, like maybe a tenth of the people that show for the main event will attend SS, but people don't get as caught up with everyone attending SS in other churches. It's simply not a big deal. If you come you come, if you don't you don't. No one makes a federal case and no one feels guilty or shamed for not attending SS. I don't know why we can't do that.

One church I went to the average age of the people in SS had to have been 75+. No lie. Other than me I don't think there was a single person there under 70. I thought, man this church is in trouble in about 15 years. But then when the main event started the place was packed with kids and young couples. It was mostly the elderly that kept SS alive.
You can't break what's broken already.
- LeAnn Rimes

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mom3
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by mom3 » 16 Oct 2018, 16:30

Remember in Lord of the Rings where there was an obvious climax, the movie was done, and then there was a whole other two hours? That's our church.
I love this part. It's when Gandalf falls down with the Balrog right before Bilbo's birthday. I love the card Aragorn sends.
One church I went to the average age of the people in SS had to have been 75+.
Our ward SS is pretty much that way now. Like once a quarter when we see a Bishopric member head in, then we all troop in and muddle through it. All the other weeks it's hall church.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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nibbler
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by nibbler » 16 Oct 2018, 16:41

mom3 wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 15:55
For me - I wish the Sacrament time was longer.
The only issue I have there is that when my kids were younger I learned a lot of wrestling holds in an effort to keep them still during sacrament. It was tough. They were raw kinetic energy wearing a convincing human disguise.
mom3 wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 15:55
Other churches chapels are available during the week if someone wants to have quiet communion with God. Only people who have keys can do that in our church. Usually those people are super busy and you can't borrow the keys.
This is the subject of an entire different thread but compared to other churches I've been to our chapels are... uninspiring to put it mildly. We've got the burlap halfway up the walls, no windows, all interior walls, all artificial light, permanent cheerio dust and glitter ground into the utilitarian carpet and a big ole floor to ceiling length curtain that can't latch shut anymore where it meets in the middle.

Other churches' chapels? Sunlight, glorious sunlight. Windows? Nope, stained glass windows. Balconies. Variety. COLORS :crazy: .

But yeah, we're being frugal.
You can't break what's broken already.
- LeAnn Rimes

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 16 Oct 2018, 16:51

On Own Now wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 13:57
However the talks are managed, they should clearly be reflected in the Sacrament; talk about how we can take another spiritual step as members of the Family of Christ, then we have the Sacrament to commit ourselves to him and to receive his spirit in us.
I am a fan of talks that are lead by the spirit, rather than those that are dictated. I understand that we are non-professional speakers, and most need some direction for topics etc. But I like those that you can tell are not with the quarterly theme or whatever.

nibbler wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 16:21
Mormon Standard Time, excuse me, The Only True and Living Church Upon the Face of the Whole Earth, With Which I, the Lord, am Well Pleased, Speaking Unto the Church Collectively and Not Individually of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Standard Time.
Heh heh!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

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SamBee
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by SamBee » 16 Oct 2018, 17:09

DarkJedi wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 15:38
SamBee wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 16:54
We really need announcements. Firstly most of our ward is transient, so needs constant reminders and secondly, it's the main way information gets about - particularly on events.
I am actually in the camp of no or very few (read almost no) announcements. The point was made by Elder Cook that announcements can be effectively handled via a program or, for those of us who have kept up with the 21st Century, email or text. I do understand not everyone can access text or email, I think the Q15 does also - hence they mentioned the program as an option.

I'd rather we eliminate business in the beginning, too. Do it at the end or in the other meeting.
If I wasn't in the calling I am now, I would honestly be completely out of the loop. We get people complaining about the lack of socials, but not coming along when we have them, because they never hear about them.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by SamBee » 16 Oct 2018, 17:27

nibbler wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 16:41
.
mom3 wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 15:55
Other churches chapels are available during the week if someone wants to have quiet communion with God. Only people who have keys can do that in our church. Usually those people are super busy and you can't borrow the keys.
This is the subject of an entire different thread but compared to other churches I've been to our chapels are... uninspiring to put it mildly. We've got the burlap halfway up the walls, no windows, all interior walls, all artificial light, permanent cheerio dust and glitter ground into the utilitarian carpet and a big ole floor to ceiling length curtain that can't latch shut anymore where it meets in the middle.

Other churches' chapels? Sunlight, glorious sunlight. Windows? Nope, stained glass windows. Balconies. Variety. COLORS :crazy: .

But yeah, we're being frugal.
Not round here they're not. Only the Catholics do that. We have some cathedrals in the downtown, but the suburban churches are never open. Most churches here are only open once or twice a week for a few hours.

Some of them are white elephants. We have huge churches down the road with tiny congregations. They spend most of their money on the building.

Don't assume all.churches have fancy homes. My last church met in a leisure center. The one before that in a leaky construction trailer next to a children's soccer ground.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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mom3
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by mom3 » 16 Oct 2018, 19:06

This is the subject of an entire different thread but compared to other churches I've been to our chapels are... uninspiring to put it mildly. We've got the burlap halfway up the walls, no windows, all interior walls, all artificial light, permanent cheerio dust and glitter ground into the utilitarian carpet and a big ole floor to ceiling length curtain that can't latch shut anymore where it meets in the middle.
MAJOR THREAD JACK-

My favorite church parenting moment came when my middle daughter was 6 years old. Our ward had been relegated to the worst building in the area. It stunk. The burlap crawled with mold. It was unhealthy.

Our first Sacrament Meeting in the chapel, I look over and my cute, curly topped, dimpled darling is pounding her colored pencils into the burlap. We were a very model family, so I am leaning over, using all my whisper actions to get her to stop. She looks over at me and says in her big girl outdoor voice. "Mom, Heavenly Father doesn't have a house this ugly."

I look up, and the entire Bishopric is trying not to laugh.

My girl was spot on.

RETURNING TO THE THREAD
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SamBee
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by SamBee » 17 Oct 2018, 03:55

I had to look up what burlap was. Is it that stuff that gets put on wall panels? If so our local temple has some but none of the chapels round here.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: New Sunday Worship

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Oct 2018, 05:09

SamBee wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 17:09
DarkJedi wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 15:38
SamBee wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 16:54
We really need announcements. Firstly most of our ward is transient, so needs constant reminders and secondly, it's the main way information gets about - particularly on events.
I am actually in the camp of no or very few (read almost no) announcements. The point was made by Elder Cook that announcements can be effectively handled via a program or, for those of us who have kept up with the 21st Century, email or text. I do understand not everyone can access text or email, I think the Q15 does also - hence they mentioned the program as an option.

I'd rather we eliminate business in the beginning, too. Do it at the end or in the other meeting.
If I wasn't in the calling I am now, I would honestly be completely out of the loop. We get people complaining about the lack of socials, but not coming along when we have them, because they never hear about them.
So if it's in the email/text and/or bulletin there's no excuse. My best friend generally sits beside me in priesthood opening. We hear the same announcements, we both have great hearing. If I mention something that was brought up in those announcements during the week 9 times out of 10 he responds "What? Where did you hear that?" sometimes flowed up by "Man, I was really trying to pay attention." He is not an auditory learner, but send him a text and he's got it. As an educator I understand that there are different kinds of learners and the email or bulletin are both visual - but then the majority of us are visual and we all learn in all three ways but have one way that is "dominant." That said, I'm actually fine with a "Don't forget our chili cookoff this coming Saturday" announcement, what bugs me is a complete review of the details of that event (which are all on the poster in the hall and in the bulletin) and a rundown of everything that's coming up in the next month (complete with details) and reminder about building cleaning (also on the bulletin board and in the bulletin). And on top of that our bishop loves to pontificate on the announcements (his counselors are much better at doing them). This past Sunday the announcement part of SM took almost 10 minutes - all stuff we all knew if we are paying any attention at all.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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