The Church to match box office sales ...

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dande48
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by dande48 » 13 Oct 2018, 10:25

DarkJedi wrote:
13 Oct 2018, 05:46
If forgiven by God (and I'm not sure God forgives organizations, I do believe God forgives individuals), there is no need for an apology.
I've heard this repeatedly, but I'm not sure I like the sentiment. It's too often used as a doctrinal way to place the blame on the victim. "God has forgiven me, and if you don't forgive me, you hold the greater sin." It absolves without the need for recompense, and leaves the victim in their hurt, believing God will make it right. Yet they still hurt. I think it's kind of silly that we focus on obtaining forgiveness from God (who has everything, knows everything, and is all powerful), rather than our fellowman. I believe repentance should be more about restoring good relations and making things up the best we can to those we have wronged, over trying to gain absolution from a third party (God).

But that's not doctrine. Blessed are the meek, for I don't have to worry about them.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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QuestionAbound
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by QuestionAbound » 13 Oct 2018, 14:07

So, I think that for me - it seems so commercial.

I get that the Church has commercial enterprises, but for the most part, they are not discussed publicly.

Entering the world of entertainment - or the world of Mommy blogs...is weird.

It wasn't long ago that the Church fb page was linking to and encouraging members to purchase products made by Mommy bloggers on their revenue-generating blogs.
I am totally fine with moms who run these blogs to tout their own products - capitalism and all.

But when The Church starts directing people to these blogs, I wonder.
It feels the same "weird" when the Church is offering to match box office sales. What makes that movie so special? What made the Mom Blogs so special. I don't have a blog and I don't own an entertainment company, so it's not like I'm jealous. I just wonder - why doesn't the Church offer to match sales to see the World Cup? Or the premiere of Star Wars?

We aren't even allowed to mention products by name in church meetings. But now the Church is endorsing certain products?
Maybe it feels weird b/c it leaves the door open for other things and maybe b/c it can lead to confusion.

Anyway, if you've read any of my posts, you know that I have difficulty articulating my thoughts and this comment here is no different.
Sorry if I am not coming across the right way. :roll:

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DarkJedi
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Oct 2018, 19:44

dande48 wrote:
13 Oct 2018, 10:25
DarkJedi wrote:
13 Oct 2018, 05:46
If forgiven by God (and I'm not sure God forgives organizations, I do believe God forgives individuals), there is no need for an apology.
I've heard this repeatedly, but I'm not sure I like the sentiment. It's too often used as a doctrinal way to place the blame on the victim. "God has forgiven me, and if you don't forgive me, you hold the greater sin." It absolves without the need for recompense, and leaves the victim in their hurt, believing God will make it right. Yet they still hurt. I think it's kind of silly that we focus on obtaining forgiveness from God (who has everything, knows everything, and is all powerful), rather than our fellowman. I believe repentance should be more about restoring good relations and making things up the best we can to those we have wronged, over trying to gain absolution from a third party (God).

But that's not doctrine. Blessed are the meek, for I don't have to worry about them.
Just to point out, I purposely avoided saying that the greater sin is upon those who don't forgive. I honestly don't believe that. You'll not hear any victim blaming from me. Other than that, we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about repentance (changing, turning toward God), you're talking about restitution. I recognize there are those that believe restitution is a necessary part of repentance and having been a missionary in the old flipbook days, I recall repentance being taught that way. I disagree that gaining forgiveness from God requires restitution or any other kind of penance. I do agree that if we desire to heal relationships with others restitution is probably necessary, but I also recognize we can't force others or require it of others that they make restitution to gain our forgiveness. If they want our forgiveness they might do so, but if they don't or don't care it probably ain't gonna happen and we have no choice but to accept that because it is what it is.

Our views obviously differ on the subject. I do understand your hurt, I'm hurting too. How we're dealing with it is different, so we're left with agreeing to disagree.

On a related side note, I did like the gist of Elder Holland's talk last week. But at the same time it bugged me. Elder Holland put all the onus on the aggrieved individual, when it took two to tango - that bishop was also wrong and there was a lot he could have done, too (including apologizing and making restitution).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by SilentDawning » 14 Oct 2018, 12:39

I don't have a problem with this at all. It's a highly visible way of helping others, while also furthering the interests of the church at the same time. My only concern is whether the story portrayed in the movie is faithful to what actually happened, as we all have heard the term "whitewashing".
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dande48
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by dande48 » 14 Oct 2018, 13:00

SilentDawning wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 12:39
My only concern is whether the story portrayed in the movie is faithful to what actually happened...
I've been reading up on Jane Manning James. She has a pretty fascinating story, and I think shines a positive light on the Smith family; she was a very close friend of the family, and even reportedly was shown the urim and thumim. Juding by the name of the movie, I'm certain that's what they'll focus on. She was a close friend of the Smiths. I doubt they'll bring up anything about her time in Utah, which had more than it's fair share of hardships. She was the only black person in that time to have temple work done while living. While she waited outside, another woman went into the temple as proxy, and had her sealed to Joseph Smith Jr as a servant for time and all eternity.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by SamBee » 14 Oct 2018, 13:43

SilentDawning wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 12:39
I don't have a problem with this at all. It's a highly visible way of helping others, while also furthering the interests of the church at the same time. My only concern is whether the story portrayed in the movie is faithful to what actually happened, as we all have heard the term "whitewashing".
* Blackwashing
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Re: The Church to match box office sales ...

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Oct 2018, 17:31

Some historian friends have said it is excellent - and that it emphasizes both Emma and Jane as strong women.

Also, to be crystal clear:

The movie was NOT created by the Church. That is important to note, just in case some people are not aware of it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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