You’re good.Old Timer wrote:Yep. I get that. Mine was a very shorthand attempt to say what you said.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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You’re good.Old Timer wrote:Yep. I get that. Mine was a very shorthand attempt to say what you said.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
This is my take on it -- when secular knowledge harmonizes with their opinions, or current doctrine, then it's an example of how how study and faith complement each other. When secular knowledge conflicts with their opinions, we have to be concerned about relying on the teachings of men rather than the inspired word -- using the term inspired loosely. As we have seen, it's not always inspired!!Dkormond wrote: ↑06 Oct 2018, 14:40 After listening to, yet another, secular knowledge diatribe by Dallin Oakes I have to speak my mind. The level of frustration I have over this topic is beyond explanation.
Church leaders have repeatedly demonstrated that their knowledge isn’t necessarily “the truth,” and “Secular” knowledge has spread further light on the subject. As examples prohibition of the priesthood to people of African descent, and calling all Native Americans Lamanites has been a huge revelation to church leaders that their “inspiration” was not so inspired. I honestly have greater respect for people like Galileo, Copernicus, and Martin Luther.
I would love to send them a letter, but that is discouraged, so this is my sounding board. Guess what? The methodology to discover truth identified by “secular” methods is the actual way to find truth, because what is taught by our church leaders is rarely inspired, it’s “their belief,” and God unfortunately is rarely involved.
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But it does in many ways. We could not wipe ourselves out a century ago - at least not so quickly. We can carry out atrocities on an industrial scale that the conquistadors would have marveled at. We also have insane pollution visible all over the place, even within the bays of the Antarctic and at the bottom of the oceanic trenches.
I did! Lowell Bennion has a number of books with similar themes. I believe he was teaching institute classes at the time (60's or 70's) and his books seem geared towards young people leaving their parents homes and discovering in University information that contradicts their earlier religious understandings.Have you ever read Bennion's book...."Religion and the Pursuit of Truth"?
I think that is an interesting list. I have not read Robert Lifton, but that sounds interesting. I may have to check that out and put it on my list.Dkormond wrote: ↑07 Oct 2018, 12:44 From his work he defined what a cult is. His definition burrows deal into my soul.
1.) Cults control information.
2.) Cult Leaders are chosen by God and considered infallible.
3.) Cults demand purity
4.) Cults demand confession of imagined sins.
5.)Cult doctrines are inflexible.
6.) Cults Load the language
7.) Cult doctrine trumps experience
8.) Cult doctrine trumps existence
Good summary, Roy. The balanced, well-rounded life is what spoke to me as I read it. I think I am not so inspired by art as maybe others are. But I don't dismiss it and do find I can work harder to further appreciate it, even if it is not natural to me. I have been influenced by Joseph Campbell, Eckhart Tolle, and others who suggest there is a good place to embrace the myths and religious perspective...but accept them for what they are, and realize there is a place for other types of approaches too, like science, for things in the scientific realm.Roy wrote: ↑08 Oct 2018, 08:43I did! Lowell Bennion has a number of books with similar themes. I believe he was teaching institute classes at the time (60's or 70's) and his books seem geared towards young people leaving their parents homes and discovering in University information that contradicts their earlier religious understandings.Have you ever read Bennion's book...."Religion and the Pursuit of Truth"?
Bro. Bennion advises a degree of compartmentailisation and an effort to stay well rounded. Religion can be like music or art - he argues. Science has it's truths and science can provide many useful methods for descirbing and deconstructing a masterpiece - but at the core, a masterpiece is a masterpiece because of how it is felt by the human heart. So learn and become successful in secular pursuits but do not allow that portion of your life to completely smother the more spiritual side of art, music, and religion. Those too are needed for a "balanced" and well rounded life.
You might be able to check a lot of boxes by using a cult checklist to evaluate your family or certain companies.Heber13 wrote: ↑08 Oct 2018, 09:11I think that is an interesting list. I have not read Robert Lifton, but that sounds interesting. I may have to check that out and put it on my list.Dkormond wrote: ↑07 Oct 2018, 12:44 From his work he defined what a cult is. His definition burrows deal into my soul.
1.) Cults control information.
2.) Cult Leaders are chosen by God and considered infallible.
3.) Cults demand purity
4.) Cults demand confession of imagined sins.
5.)Cult doctrines are inflexible.
6.) Cults Load the language
7.) Cult doctrine trumps experience
8.) Cult doctrine trumps existence
[...]
Regarding cults...I wonder how many religions are described by that list, and perhaps there is a sliding scale on some definitions of those things. I can see shades of it in the LDS church, but also not necessarily to unhealthy extremes.
Is this a different sort of compartmentalization than what President Oaks advises? This is how I read Oaks:Roy wrote: ↑08 Oct 2018, 08:43 Bro. Bennion advises a degree of compartmentailisation and an effort to stay well rounded. Religion can be like music or art - he argues. Science has it's truths and science can provide many useful methods for descirbing and deconstructing a masterpiece - but at the core, a masterpiece is a masterpiece because of how it is felt by the human heart. So learn and become successful in secular pursuits but do not allow that portion of your life to completely smother the more spiritual side of art, music, and religion. Those too are needed for a "balanced" and well rounded life.
I like it!