Two Hour Church

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Minyan Man
Posts: 1673
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Minyan Man » 07 Oct 2018, 08:50

Elder Cook said the following:
"Our purpose is to balance the church and home experience to increase faith," Elder Cook said.

"This new shift will help our members focus on deepening conversion to God and Jesus Christ, strengthening families and individuals through home study, staying focused on the sacrament, and helping those on both sides of the veil through missionary work and temple work," Elder Cook added. This will also leave more time for home and family evenings any time of the week.
My concern is for the members who are not in a traditional family setting. Old couples, single adults who live alone. Widows, single mothers, etc.
For some in my ward, I would assume this (3) hour block could be the height of their spiritual & social experience for the week.
Now the time has been cut by a third. For some people that's a lot. It would be easy to rationalize: I might as well stay home for the (2) hours too. Some people in our ward take public transportation that takes 45-6o minutes each way. They could spend more time going to church than being in church. If the church wants to really "minister" we would emphasize inviting people into our home or have more social contacts with the extra time. "Deepening our conversion to God and Jesus Christ" is a noble goal. I visualize it could give us more time to watch football & baseball games on TV.
IMO.

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nibbler
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Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by nibbler » 07 Oct 2018, 08:50

LookingHard wrote:
06 Oct 2018, 18:48
I don't get why Elder Holland was going around saying, "You had better have your testimonies strong before conference as it will be test your faith".
I want to revisit this.

Not a fan, I think it's manipulative. I'll employ hyperbole to explain.

Only wicked people that have rejected the spirit of god will disagree with what I'm about to say!

It's an attempt to stamp out criticism before it's even had the chance to get off the ground. It's nothing new, it can be found all over scripture, I've probably done it twice since I've got out of bed today.

Anyone that takes issue with anything said in conference didn't have a strong enough testimony. Your faith was tested. You failed.
If one dream dies, dream another dream. If you get knocked down, get back up and go again.
― Joel Osteen

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nibbler
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Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by nibbler » 07 Oct 2018, 08:52

Minyan Man wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 08:50
Elder Cook said the following:
"Our purpose is to balance the church and home experience to increase faith," Elder Cook said.

"This new shift will help our members focus on deepening conversion to God and Jesus Christ, strengthening families and individuals through home study, staying focused on the sacrament, and helping those on both sides of the veil through missionary work and temple work," Elder Cook added. This will also leave more time for home and family evenings any time of the week.
My concern is for the members who are not in a traditional family setting. Old couples, single adults who live alone. Widows, single mothers, etc.
For some in my ward, I would assume this (3) hour block could be the height of their spiritual & social experience for the week.
Now the time has been cut by a third. For some people that's a lot. It would be easy to rationalize: I might as well stay home for the (2) hours too. Some people in our ward take public transportation that takes 45-6o minutes each way. They could spend more time going to church than being in church. If the church wants to really "minister" we would emphasize inviting people into our home or have more social contacts with the extra time. "Deepening our conversion to God and Jesus Christ" is a noble goal. I visualize it could give us more time to watch football & baseball games on TV.
IMO.
Was anything said about forming informal study groups?
If one dream dies, dream another dream. If you get knocked down, get back up and go again.
― Joel Osteen

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Heber13
Posts: 7099
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Heber13 » 07 Oct 2018, 09:37

I had the same thought MM. My MIL is in her 70s and lives church and all the interactions. I'm not sure shorter church is what she wanted.

Our Ward has started a group they refer to as "golden girls" and the RS has meetings for 70 and older (but all are welcome) to get together and have time together.

I think there are ways to meet needs of individuals without making everyone suffer.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
Posts: 6608
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by DarkJedi » 07 Oct 2018, 09:43

nibbler wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 08:52
Minyan Man wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 08:50
Elder Cook said the following:
"Our purpose is to balance the church and home experience to increase faith," Elder Cook said.

"This new shift will help our members focus on deepening conversion to God and Jesus Christ, strengthening families and individuals through home study, staying focused on the sacrament, and helping those on both sides of the veil through missionary work and temple work," Elder Cook added. This will also leave more time for home and family evenings any time of the week.
My concern is for the members who are not in a traditional family setting. Old couples, single adults who live alone. Widows, single mothers, etc.
For some in my ward, I would assume this (3) hour block could be the height of their spiritual & social experience for the week.
Now the time has been cut by a third. For some people that's a lot. It would be easy to rationalize: I might as well stay home for the (2) hours too. Some people in our ward take public transportation that takes 45-6o minutes each way. They could spend more time going to church than being in church. If the church wants to really "minister" we would emphasize inviting people into our home or have more social contacts with the extra time. "Deepening our conversion to God and Jesus Christ" is a noble goal. I visualize it could give us more time to watch football & baseball games on TV.
IMO.
Was anything said about forming informal study groups?
Yes. They also warned about programmizing it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Minyan Man
Posts: 1673
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Minyan Man » 08 Oct 2018, 08:09

Minyan Man wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 08:50
Elder Cook said the following:
"Our purpose is to balance the church and home experience to increase faith," Elder Cook said.

"This new shift will help our members focus on deepening conversion to God and Jesus Christ, strengthening families and individuals through home study, staying focused on the sacrament, and helping those on both sides of the veil through missionary work and temple work," Elder Cook added. This will also leave more time for home and family evenings any time of the week.
My concern is for the members who are not in a traditional family setting. Old couples, single adults who live alone. Widows, single mothers, etc.
For some in my ward, I would assume this (3) hour block could be the height of their spiritual & social experience for the week.
Now the time has been cut by a third. For some people that's a lot. It would be easy to rationalize: I might as well stay home for the (2) hours too. Some people in our ward take public transportation that takes 45-6o minutes each way. They could spend more time going to church than being in church. If the church wants to really "minister" we would emphasize inviting people into our home or have more social contacts with the extra time. "Deepening our conversion to God and Jesus Christ" is a noble goal. I visualize it could give us more time to watch football & baseball games on TV.
IMO.
As I've had time to consider this change further, I'm more worried than ever for the "marginal" members of my ward.
By marginal I mean poor, single & minority. In SLC you have access to a ward, it seems, within walking distance of where you live.
In a large metropolitan city it can be a sacrifice for people to get to church. Especially in the central city.
We have offered to pick people up & drive them but, for whatever reason, they are reluctant to accept our offer.

Maybe I'm worrying for nothing. I'm sure we will receive further enlightenment.

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Heber13
Posts: 7099
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Heber13 » 08 Oct 2018, 09:22

Minyan Man wrote:
08 Oct 2018, 08:09
I'm more worried than ever for the "marginal" members of my ward.
By marginal I mean poor, single & minority.
Perhaps that is where better understanding of "ministering" will come into play? Those that have needs to be met...should be ministered to appropriately.

But the risk is, they won't and may be forgotten. With any change comes some risk, I think.

I hope we figure it out so it is better overall for everyone.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Roy
Posts: 5640
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Roy » 08 Oct 2018, 09:46

Heber13 wrote:
08 Oct 2018, 09:22
Perhaps that is where better understanding of "ministering" will come into play? Those that have needs to be met...should be ministered to appropriately.

But the risk is, they won't and may be forgotten. With any change comes some risk, I think.
One of the churches where we participate has "small groups". They can be whatever people are interested in. Scrapbooking, Quilting, Board games, Family night activity with food, service, hiking, mountain biking, etc.
I feel that these groups can be a great way to build friendships with your fellow church members.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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dande48
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by dande48 » 08 Oct 2018, 10:13

Roy wrote:
08 Oct 2018, 09:46
One of the churches where we participate has "small groups". They can be whatever people are interested in. Scrapbooking, Quilting, Board games, Family night activity with food, service, hiking, mountain biking, etc.
I feel that these groups can be a great way to build friendships with your fellow church members.
We have a few groups like that. Unfortunately, there have been several difficulties, which have caused my wife in particular to feel left out and isolated from the other sister's in the ward. Other wards, it's been great! But my point is, it's largely down to the luck of the draw, and will often make it more difficult for those caught on the sidelines to feel included. I am also worried that the loss of the third hour will exacerbate the problem. While I absolutely love the change, I do think there will be some challenges that need addressing. Ward fellowship is one of them.

I think the Church is trying to address these problems, especially with the "new" ministering program. I like it that the Church is changing and trying new things. But progress is never linear, and there are multiple dimensions.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Roy
Posts: 5640
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Two Hour Church

Post by Roy » 08 Oct 2018, 10:26

dande48 wrote:
08 Oct 2018, 10:13
progress is never linear, and there are multiple dimensions.
Amen!
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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