I was reflecting on this the other day. There have been so many false alarms, and we have been at 11:59 pm for so many decades now (which I know is not that much from the perspective of eternity), I often wonder.
Do you believe there will ever be a second coming? (Other than the personal one you are likely to get when you die?)
Do you believe in the second coming?
- SilentDawning
- Posts: 7602
- Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55
Do you believe in the second coming?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young
"The wise man has the power" -- adapted from What A Fool Believes -- The Doobie Brothers
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young
"The wise man has the power" -- adapted from What A Fool Believes -- The Doobie Brothers
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
Three things we can be fairly sure of:
* The human race will end.
* This world will end.
* This universe will end.
They might not happen all together but basically the bottom one will cause the top two to end, and the middle one will almost certainly cause the first, unless we get off Earth in sufficient numbers.
We live in bizarre times. I think the industrial revolution was a gamechanger as was our new found ability to destroy ourselves.
* The human race will end.
* This world will end.
* This universe will end.
They might not happen all together but basically the bottom one will cause the top two to end, and the middle one will almost certainly cause the first, unless we get off Earth in sufficient numbers.
We live in bizarre times. I think the industrial revolution was a gamechanger as was our new found ability to destroy ourselves.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
Depends entirely on how it is defined.
Also, I have no clue, ultimately.
Also, I have no clue, ultimately.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)
Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
I feel this, right here, is at the root of all doctrine for me.
As for a literal second coming... let's define it as at the end of the battle of Armageddon, the ressurected, immortal being who was known as Jesus Christ appears wearing a red robe, and saves the day. He smites the wicked, binds Satan in a really dark pit, and ushers in a thousand years of peace, where we will spend our days doing geneology and temple work.
I don't know if it'll happen or not, but I don't think so. From what I understand, the source(s) of the claim have had a dubious track record, and I have a hard time taking most of it at face value. If it doeshappen, I doubt it will happen in the way it was prophecied. That said, I am a big believer in the cyclical nature of the universe. What happens, will end. And what ends will happen again.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole
"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket
"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
If we believe Jesus was the Christ, then there will be a 2nd coming in some time and fashion.
I think it goes along with the doctrine.
I do not believe it will be while I'm still alive.
It is a good thing to have faith in and to let it motivate me to behave today as if it were tomorrow. Am I ready to stand before God?
I think it goes along with the doctrine.
I do not believe it will be while I'm still alive.
It is a good thing to have faith in and to let it motivate me to behave today as if it were tomorrow. Am I ready to stand before God?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
When I was a teenager (back in '80s), it seemed to be mentioned more frequently than it is now. Of course, that was during the Cold War where it seemed the former U.S.S.R. had missiles pointed at U.S.A. (and vice versa). I can vividly remember a lesson in Seminary that laid out all the events of the Second Coming (it was kind of scary!). Currently, I see a general reference to the Second Coming but no detailed discussions of it. (At least not in the meetings I attend). My personal position is that there will probably be a Second Coming but I wonder if it will be like the First. The Jews expected Christ to come and vanquish their enemies in a warlike, immediate manner. And that didn't happen. Perhaps the Second Coming will be similar...an expectation of violence and glory that will not be met. Christ may come in a subtler, quieter fashion. No scriptural or doctrinal basis for that. Just my own thoughts.
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
I love the doctrine of a millennium (peace and prosperity for all). I would like to see humanity make progress towards this goal. I believe that humanity has made significant progress in the past.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood
“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223
"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223
"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
What can we see around us?
* Clear attempts to move towards one world government, and thus a global ruler.
* Near total surveillance largely achieved in.many places.
* Decline in religion in the developed world.
* Moves to abolish cash.
Many of these things are happening but our rulers do not like to publicize it.
* Clear attempts to move towards one world government, and thus a global ruler.
* Near total surveillance largely achieved in.many places.
* Decline in religion in the developed world.
* Moves to abolish cash.
Many of these things are happening but our rulers do not like to publicize it.
Last edited by SamBee on 30 Sep 2018, 14:01, edited 1 time in total.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
I don't know if I believe in a second coming or not. It's been coming soon for 2000 years, but I don't know how long soon is. As someone else pointed out, the Q15 seem to talk about it a lot less now than even 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that's a clue that it doesn't really matter (just my own opinion). I'm going to chose to continue to try to be kind to everyone and not worry about if that's because the second coming is nigh or because by doing so I will earn a heavenly reward. I'm doing it because I think it's the right thing to do.
FWIW, I am open to the idea that the second coming may have already happened, and/or that it isn't anything like what is described in the Bible or BoM.
FWIW, I am open to the idea that the second coming may have already happened, and/or that it isn't anything like what is described in the Bible or BoM.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.
Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
My Introduction
Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
My Introduction
- felixfabulous
- Posts: 138
- Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 07:13
Re: Do you believe in the second coming?
Great discussion. I take the maybe, but I doubt it approach of others on this thread. I also think it could be understood a few different ways and I highly doubt our traditional notions of a literal Second Coming at the end of a great battle will play out. Here are some of my reasons:
1. I think a lot of the New Testament reflects an idea that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent. We also tend to downplay it, but make no mistake, our work in Jackson County was about preparing for the Second Coming that was supposed to happen right then, not in 200 years. People thought the Civil War was the great battle that would usher in the Second Coming and in the 1980s it seemed like we heard about it a lot. For me, this points to a very human tendency to plan for a future event that will change the world and save us from our current state of existence instead of facing reality and working with what we've got.
2. I think there is a very good argument to be made that when Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God and alludes to things we interpret as the Second Coming, this is a part of his larger mission that has to do with radically changing the status quo and establishing a new order of things. This hasn't happened yet and can happen when people decide to live the right way and adopt his teachings, changing the power structures and setting up an equal social order (what we would think of as Zion or the Millenium). This could be a Second Coming of the teachings of Jesus and salvation for the human race in a very real way, but not in the way we traditionally expect.
3. As humans, we learn and relate by stories, which have a beginning and end. The OT (and our LDS doctrine) set out clear, simple, doctrinal narratives of the beginning that explain how humans fell from a divine state into a carnal one, the need for a Savior and why there is suffering. The final chapter brings all of this together in a final judgment where people will recon for their good and bad deeds and everything will be made right. These narratives put order in the world and explain our place in them. I think they don't hold up to scrutiny to be literal events, but teach powerful truths and help us navigate life and find meaning in it.
The only real harm I see is when people make big life decisions based on an expectation that the Second Coming is imminent (quitting their jobs, etc.). I also think that prepping can become an obsession, which is OK, I just think it's too bad when people spend their energy and money on getting ready for the apocalypse when they could be spending that money on improving their lives here and now. But, I think it gives some people a lot of comfort and helps them put order in an unsure and scary world, which is OK too.
1. I think a lot of the New Testament reflects an idea that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent. We also tend to downplay it, but make no mistake, our work in Jackson County was about preparing for the Second Coming that was supposed to happen right then, not in 200 years. People thought the Civil War was the great battle that would usher in the Second Coming and in the 1980s it seemed like we heard about it a lot. For me, this points to a very human tendency to plan for a future event that will change the world and save us from our current state of existence instead of facing reality and working with what we've got.
2. I think there is a very good argument to be made that when Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God and alludes to things we interpret as the Second Coming, this is a part of his larger mission that has to do with radically changing the status quo and establishing a new order of things. This hasn't happened yet and can happen when people decide to live the right way and adopt his teachings, changing the power structures and setting up an equal social order (what we would think of as Zion or the Millenium). This could be a Second Coming of the teachings of Jesus and salvation for the human race in a very real way, but not in the way we traditionally expect.
3. As humans, we learn and relate by stories, which have a beginning and end. The OT (and our LDS doctrine) set out clear, simple, doctrinal narratives of the beginning that explain how humans fell from a divine state into a carnal one, the need for a Savior and why there is suffering. The final chapter brings all of this together in a final judgment where people will recon for their good and bad deeds and everything will be made right. These narratives put order in the world and explain our place in them. I think they don't hold up to scrutiny to be literal events, but teach powerful truths and help us navigate life and find meaning in it.
The only real harm I see is when people make big life decisions based on an expectation that the Second Coming is imminent (quitting their jobs, etc.). I also think that prepping can become an obsession, which is OK, I just think it's too bad when people spend their energy and money on getting ready for the apocalypse when they could be spending that money on improving their lives here and now. But, I think it gives some people a lot of comfort and helps them put order in an unsure and scary world, which is OK too.