Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

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SilentDawning
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Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by SilentDawning » 13 Jul 2018, 11:38

I keep running into this lately. The church has had so many limitations, in my view, for so long, my orientation toward it isn't completely positive all the time. Lately, they have made a lot of positive changes

Combining HP and EQ
Ministering rather than checkbox Home Teaching
Plans for a new Hymn Book
Inclusiveness of female-oriented auxiliaries in core decision-making and ministering programs
Teacher's Councils to improve gospel teaching
The Gospel Topics Essays that disavow certain practices believed to be doctrine, or at least acknowledge parts of our history that needed addressing and acknowledgement
Tools for your cell phone to help leaders do their jobs better.

But I still have this less than positive feeling about it. I look at all this and think "It's about time! Why do you move so slowly!!! Do you know how some of these policies made me suffer for so many decades?? (like having to administer HT, and others). Do you remember when I suggested some of these things years ago and you rebuked me as questioning God?"

When I should be running the cheer leading squad in thanking and appreciating the changes.

This is kind of bugging me really. I wonder if it will take a return to TBM attitudes to get rid of it. Which doesn't seem in the cards in the next week or so...

Anyone else run into this?
Last edited by SilentDawning on 17 Jul 2018, 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Curt Sunshine » 13 Jul 2018, 19:48

I try hard to recognize and celebrate all good when it happens, no matter how small. I can go on continuing to work for more change, but I can't let myself become hardened to the celebration of good.

I have had to work consciously on that. It doesn't come automatically. It isn't "natural".
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Mr. Sneelock
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Mr. Sneelock » 15 Jul 2018, 10:53

I can totally relate SD. This exact phenomenon has been on my mind for the past few months so thanks for articulating it. I think for a lot of critics the church is "damned if they do, damned if they don't" and I feel myself playing in to that sentiment. Of course I should be ecstatic when the church makes positive changes but I find myself resenting the fact that the church wasn't perfect to begin with (like I was previously led to believe).

I appreciate and am encouraged by your example of choosing to celebrate the positive Curt.
. . . beauty for ashes . . .

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Katzpur
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Katzpur » 15 Jul 2018, 12:40

I know what you mean, SD. The Church made a huge to-do last month over the 40th anniversary of the ban against Black men holding the priesthood. They had a big program in the Conference Center with the Tab Choir and a number of well-known Latter-day Saints (like Alex Boye) participating. I can remember so clearly the day in 1978 that the announcement was made and how absolutely thrilled I was about it, so when I first heard about this "celebration," I thought, "This is something I don't want to miss!" Then I started thinking about it and started asking myself why I would want to be a part of such a celebration. We were discriminating against Black members of the Church for years and years and years. The lifting of the ban was a big deal, but since I don't believe the ban was ever authorized by the Lord in the first place, I don't know why we should be patting ourselves on the back because we finally stopped treating Blacks like second-class citizens.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

Roy
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Roy » 17 Jul 2018, 09:32

It helps me sometimes to look at the LDS church as a somewhat strange and esoteric social club. This makes it easier to say to myself, "oh well, their club - their rules" when the church moves in a direction that I do not like. I also feel more free to say, "good for them!" when they move in a direction that I do like.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Sheldon
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Sheldon » 17 Jul 2018, 14:25

This is called the perfectionist fallacy. This is the one that those against the church fall for most often. Example: The LDS church has a very poor track record with regard to treating LGTB fairly, Therefore the church should not be praised or even recognized for the good they do.

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dande48
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by dande48 » 17 Jul 2018, 15:25

Sheldon wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:25
This is called the perfectionist fallacy. This is the one that those against the church fall for most often. Example: The LDS church has a very poor track record with regard to treating LGTB fairly, Therefore the church should not be praised or even recognized for the good they do.
I agree with this. The Church is a mixed bag; There's a lot of good and a lot of bad. The good they do does not compensate for the bad, and the bad does not diminish the good. The past does not erase the present, and the present does not erase the past. The same could be said for every organization and every person.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by Curt Sunshine » 17 Jul 2018, 15:38

To follow what Sheldon said, I love the simple statement:
Perfect is the enemy of good.


A very recent example:

Affirmation (the primary LGBTQ advocacy organization in Utah) asked the LDS Church for $25,000 to implement suicide prevention training on a broad scale. The Church donated the money requested.

Immediately, lots of people condemned the Church for donating such a "small" amount and/or called it hypocritical to give toward an issue it helped create. So many people wanted their perfect solution (more money or a massive shift in current doctrine) that they couldn't celebrate, applaud, or even accept a very good thing - that was exactly what Affirmation requested.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by SilentDawning » 17 Jul 2018, 18:41

The problem, for me, seems to be giving adulation when there are so many thing I believe are left undone, and I have experienced so much hardship because of my involvement in the church.

I thought today that perhaps the solution to the problem is to give the adulation, and let my own "path" be my only symbol to myself as my reservations of what remains undone -- and what has happened in the past. In other words, my lack of commitment remains as my final quarter. I can praise, celebrate, and complement all I want, but my commitment level remains as the residual effect of my concerns. Only when I'm completely satisfied with the experience of a Mormon will I give that back again. The lack of commitment is for me; and I give it up as I please.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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dande48
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Re: Never sure when to give kudos and when not to!

Post by dande48 » 17 Jul 2018, 19:24

SilentDawning wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 18:41
Only when I'm completely satisfied with the experience of a Mormon will I give that back again.
Do you think this possible? What would it take?
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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