It's official, so long Scouts

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dande48
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by dande48 » 09 May 2018, 11:38

Roy wrote:
09 May 2018, 09:35
The responses from members that really bother me in this regard is 1) RMN had a revelation to make this change and that 2) the church is taking a moral stand.
I don't buy it's a revelation one teensy weensy bit. But isn't it a moral stand? It might not be morals we agree with, but the (B)SA is running pretty strongly against the policies of the Church. The main issue the Church has with including girls, is that having teenage boys and teenage girls on the same overnight campouts, could lead to teenage "snuggle bunnies". I honestly think that's the whole of it. With allowing gay scout leaders (not saying I agree), homosexual practice does run contrary to what the Church deems as commandments, which can also encourage same-sex "snuggle bunnies". The Church wants to avoid teenage "snuggle bunnies" at all costs.

I had a good friend of mine who was raped by an LDS appointed scout leader on a campout. There are dangers from being in the middle of the woods, late at night. Sadly, most of them are human.
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Roadrunner
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Roadrunner » 09 May 2018, 12:50

I will miss many parts of Boy Scouts, others not so much. I do think camping, hiking, being away from mom and dad, and learning outdoorsy stuff is important for youth. I hope physical activity and outdoors plays a non-trivial role in the new programs - both for boys and girls. Heaven knows we need less screen time. The boys were almost forced to do monthly campouts and frankly I think it would be helpful for girls to do the same.

I must get this off my chest - I'm annoyed by the many proclamations of loyalty to the BSA over the last few years. We had the General YM president visit our stake last year and he said our relationship with BSA is strong and we're not going anywhere. I very much felt church HQ wasn't being transparent or consistent regarding boy scouts.

That being said, I'm thrilled that there may be more equality between YM and YW. Two thumbs up for that.

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Rumin8
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Rumin8 » 09 May 2018, 15:38

I’m following this topic with interest. I’m ambivalent with scouts. My mother earned my eagle for me, yet my oldest son earned his recently on his own. This same son attended an international jamboree a few years ago. Our biggest revelation is that the scouting program internationally was co-ed. Boys and girls together in troops. There was a lot of international relationship building by our boys on the trip, along with some scouting. :shifty: :lol:

I echo others concerns that this will turn more into an evangelical program with less focus on practical skills and having fun. They HAVE needed to fix the disparity of types of activities between YW/YM. We’ll see how they do.
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Roy
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Roy » 09 May 2018, 16:05

dande48 wrote:
09 May 2018, 11:38
But isn't it a moral stand?
For one, the gentleman that told me that the church needed to take a moral stand on the issue also told me that things started to go downhill for him as a scoutmaster when the church hierarchy told him to start accepting non-members into his scout troop. I found it ironic that this man had very strong convictions about morals but apparently had no compunctions about excluding non-church members.

However, I do not think that any "moral stand" factored vey heavily into the church's decision.

The boy scouts allows the chartering organization to make determinations on Gay leaders and gender inclusion. Therefore, if the church continued with BSA then it could continue to run things business as usual. There would be no co-ed campouts in LDS troops.

I do believe that the reasons for the parting of ways are business reasons. This is actually basically what has been said by the church in the official statement - that the church needs a program that will adapt to member needs in other countries & that will be less expensive.

It is my opinion that most of the decisions made in the church are business decisions.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 13 May 2018, 16:33

I am hopeful for the new program, and saddened that the association with scouting is ending.

I hope the new program is what I've seen so far, that youth will have more control of what the program entails and what they do.

I see many negatives in separating from the scouts. Service opportunities, the organization, and recognition, to name a few. Not that the new program won't have some of these, but with scouts now accepting girls, technically it could be part of the new program for the combined youth.

But I digress, the partnership is ending. My girls are grown, and I only have 1 boy left in scouting.
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 May 2018, 16:51

Hate is too strong a word, but I didn't like Scouts - at all. Neither of my boys liked it, but that might have been my fault, to a degree.

I am cautiously optimistic.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Roy
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Roy » 15 May 2018, 08:13

DarkJedi wrote:
09 May 2018, 07:00
Dande, I think they'll build on what's already there and still being implemented (rather poorly from my point of view).
https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities?lang=eng
I hope that this new program will be implemented much more thoroughly than what we currently have for teachers/priests. I currently serve as Bear den leader. We have a fairly set timeline of lessons and projects in order to help each boy achieve the bear badge by the end of the year.

If I were a YM leader with a list of activities that I could do depending on the desire and interests of the boys, what is to stop me from playing basketball every week and calling it good?

Therefore I hope for some sort of base curriculum that could be supplemented with "elective" activities depending on desire and interest.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SilentDawning
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by SilentDawning » 15 May 2018, 11:16

I just hope they don't make it really Mormon. That the new program isn't one that extends the indoctrination of the church, isn't focused on church-like outcomes rather than general, life-oriented outcomes. If it turns into just another program, piece of culture, or even doctrine whose primary purpose is to serve the interests of the organizational church, I'm out.

Doesn't matter anyway as my son isn't at all interested in church anyway.

I am sort of glad to see Scouting go -- it was expensive and quite a bit of a racket on the backs of the families of youths.

I wonder how the BSA has reacted to this exodus of the church from its program? Anyone seen a statement?
Last edited by SilentDawning on 20 May 2018, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
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DevilsAdvocate
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by DevilsAdvocate » 17 May 2018, 07:05

Scouts was actually one of the few fun things I can remember about Church along with playing basketball and the ward Halloween parties unlike the pure Church youth camps with testimony meetings that were definitely not much fun at all. If the Church didn't want to be associated with scouts anymore for whatever reasons I wish they would have just stopped directly supporting troops in each ward and let people decide for themselves what to do with the time (including scouts on their own if they want) instead of replacing it with their own program. I expect the new program to be similar to the one for young women that doesn't sound very interesting or worthwhile at all to me. Don't these kids already get more than enough church stuff with the weekly meetings, seminary, etc.?
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Curt Sunshine » 17 May 2018, 07:27

MANY young women love the current program and hope the new one is better.

Some young women don't like the current program and hope the new one is better.

What works for me doesn't work for a whole lot of other people.

Such is life.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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