It's official, so long Scouts

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DarkJedi
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It's official, so long Scouts

Post by DarkJedi » 09 May 2018, 05:03

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... ative.html

I like Scouting, two of my sons are Eagles. But the writing has been on the wall a long time and I'm all in favor of this. If we really are a global church we need to start looking and acting like a global church. I have long said the only reason we were still in Scouts was because of TSM's love of and long relationship with the organization. I think the mourning period has been appropriate, and coupled with all the other reasons it's time. My hope is that the replacement program is appropriate for our young people wherever they are and that it's not just more indoctrination. More kudos and a thanks to RMN.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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nibbler
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by nibbler » 09 May 2018, 06:09

DarkJedi wrote:
09 May 2018, 05:03
My hope is that the replacement program is appropriate for our young people wherever they are and that it's not just more indoctrination.
My hope is that this isn't used as an excuse to slash funding for youth. As I understand it, scouting cost the church money and inflated the budgets for the YM program. There are several directions they could take. Bank the savings or reinvest in the youth.

In the past we've talked about the imbalance in funding between the YM and YW programs. I think scouting had a lot to do with that. I sincerely hope that they fund both programs equally, or just combine the programs, fund it as one entity, and make all the activities that cost money open to all youth. Rather than send the funds that would have gone towards scouting to the coffers, reinvest that money in the youth.

The indoctrination meetings are cheap. They are also boring. Please, please, please don't make the church as anemic for the youth as it is for the adults.

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dande48
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by dande48 » 09 May 2018, 06:56

I sure hope RMN comes up with a solid replacement. How else am I supposed to know how great my kids are? How will I know when they're responsible enough to drive?

I hope they combine the YM and YW more. I remember growing up about once a month they'd have a combined mutual activity that was always a ton of fun. On the other days, it was all merit badges. I did enjoy the camp outs, and the diversity of practical subjects. There are a lot of fundamental life skills scouting taught, that don't get covered in school.

It'd also be great if they taught some of the other fundamental life skills, that really don't get covered anywhere else but are very important. How to date, how to find a lifelong partner, how to break up with someone, how to communicate effectively, how to deal with disappointment, how to not take life so seriously... If the Church were perfect, I think all of these lessons would be covered in wonderful detail. But instead all we hear in Church is "go to Church", "read your scriptures", "pray", which lets face it, is ALL about where to look for answers, and not at all about the answers themselves. We need better training!
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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DarkJedi
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by DarkJedi » 09 May 2018, 06:58

I agree Nibbler, and that's part of my concern. Scouting is expensive and as you note YM budgets were always way more than YW budgets because of Scouting. I'm actually fine with the church as a whole keeping all the money spent on Scout registration in the vault because that doesn't affect local units directly anyway and it was money we never saw. On the other hand, if they also gave that money to local units we would be spending much more on youth as a whole than we had in the past. It would be grossly unfair now (in 2020) if the spending on YM was any different than the spending on YW at the local level.

I'd also hope to see many more "joint" activities, perhaps even a merging of YM/YW into one program. There were some major changes to YW camp this year (such as elimination of the camping certification stuff). I really hope YW camp doesn't go away (even though it is indoctrinating), but will there now (2020) also be YM camp? It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DarkJedi
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by DarkJedi » 09 May 2018, 07:00

Dande, I think they'll build on what's already there and still being implemented (rather poorly from my point of view).
https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities?lang=eng
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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dande48
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by dande48 » 09 May 2018, 07:59

DarkJedi wrote:
09 May 2018, 07:00
Dande, I think they'll build on what's already there and still being implemented (rather poorly from my point of view).
Ugh, I hated the "Duty to God" award. It felt like a "poor-man's" Eagle.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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DarkJedi
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by DarkJedi » 09 May 2018, 08:08

dande48 wrote:
09 May 2018, 07:59
DarkJedi wrote:
09 May 2018, 07:00
Dande, I think they'll build on what's already there and still being implemented (rather poorly from my point of view).
Ugh, I hated the "Duty to God" award. It felt like a "poor-man's" Eagle.
I kind of wonder what will become of that (Duty to God) and the YW award as well. Again, it will be interesting to see. I was talking with a (not very observant or connected) friend of mine this morning who thought the church would just come up with a Scout like program. I disagreed, pointing out the activity guidelines referenced in my earlier post and noting that part of the opposition to something like that is the lack of the recognized Eagle award. Other churches have had Scout like programs for years. And it comes back to Scouting not working everywhere or for every boy, which has always been a problem in the church.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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nibbler
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Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by nibbler » 09 May 2018, 08:32

DarkJedi wrote:
09 May 2018, 08:08
Other churches have had Scout like programs for years. And it comes back to Scouting not working everywhere or for every boy, which has always been a problem in the church.
I belonged to a Methodist BS troop. There was zero expectation that every boy of age in the Methodist church participate in the troop they sponsored. In fact the association was pretty loose. The Methodist church was just in a sponsor role. I'm pretty sure the troop leaders weren't even members of the Methodist church.

But that's our church for you. Programs aren't really seen as there for people that are interested, there's a cultural expectation that everyone participate in our programs. As such it probably is best that the church not sponsor a troop, since we tend to create those sorts of expectations.

I'll also say that it's funny to see the celebrations of the news on social media. I can't help but wonder - if that's the way many felt about the scouting program in the church, why did they need HQ's permission to stop participating? That obligation we feel to participate in all programs.

Roy
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Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Roy » 09 May 2018, 09:19

dande48 wrote:
09 May 2018, 06:56
How to date, how to find a lifelong partner, how to break up with someone, how to communicate effectively, how to deal with disappointment, how to not take life so seriously...
Judging from this partial list from the Teachers and Priests link DJ provided - I would say that Dande may get his wish.

•Dating panel
•Group date ideas
•Skills we can use to serve
•Getting to know the adults
•Visit and serve the elderly
•Getting to know each other
•Welcome to the neighborhood
•Panel discussion about family relationships
•Seven days of service
•Stake dance
•Friends of other faiths
•Talent show
•Service scavenger hunt
•The art of conversation
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: It's official, so long Scouts

Post by Roy » 09 May 2018, 09:35

The responses from members that really bother me in this regard is 1) RMN had a revelation to make this change and that 2) the church is taking a moral stand.

This says more about the narratives of the individuals making those statements that it does about the change itself but it still bothers me.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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