Hidden History

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hawkgrrrl
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Hidden History

Post by hawkgrrrl » 25 Apr 2018, 13:51

This has turned into a somewhat interesting discussion on W&T: https://wheatandtares.org/2018/04/24/hiding-history/

The post gives some information from the Leonard Arrington biography about how secretive / restricted the church archives were under predecessor Joseph Fielding Smith. Elder Widstoe advised Arrington how to gain access to the archives like a camel entering a tent (rather than just asking openly for what he really needed). Interestingly, Arrington's celebrated history book was labeled as "anti-Mormon" by the Church History Library! In a surprise twist, Arrington himself hid family secrets from his children, unwilling to talk about them into their adulthood. Older generations, particularly the Silent Generation, considered in-group or family loyalty a higher virtue than openness or transparency, and that's part of the issue we are now dealing with in the church.

Anyway, read over it and see what grabs you.

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: Hidden History

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 25 Apr 2018, 14:09

I only learned of Arrington during my faith transition, but I was amazed that he in the position that he was in did so well. It's a credit to him as an individual and we can reap the benefits. I wish I had read Brodie on my mission, I think I had access to her book at one point, but I had gotten my hands slapped by the Mission President after reading The God Makers.
Great read.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

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DarkJedi
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Re: Hidden History

Post by DarkJedi » 25 Apr 2018, 14:53

Whaddyamean "hidden"? It was right there in front of your noses all along. [\sarcasm]
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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LookingHard
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Re: Hidden History

Post by LookingHard » 25 Apr 2018, 16:02

Nobody makes posts that gather more comments than HawkGrrrl!

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dande48
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Re: Hidden History

Post by dande48 » 25 Apr 2018, 17:50

Good post, Hawkgirl!
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
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nibbler
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Re: Hidden History

Post by nibbler » 26 Apr 2018, 20:54

People in the silent generation were young adults during McCarthy era. It wasn't safe to hold certain opinions, so certain opinions were kept to oneself. Dissenting from majority opinion was treasonous.

So...

I hope this isn't off topic, but setting aside history and examining present day. Are we currently experiencing or have we recently experienced a McCarthy era in the church? Is it safe to hold certain opinions? Do people feel pressure to keep certain opinions to themselves? Is dissenting from majority opinion deemed treasonous?

In the days of social media and having access to people all around the globe we're no longer as bound by geography and immediate environment to find a group that will be accepting. It's also far easier to step outside of a social community these days. There are other ways that people are having their social needs met.

What I wonder is whether the youth that could break Mormonism's silent generations are hanging around the culture long enough to do so, or whether the path of least resistance is to jump ship and seek out more accepting social outlets; leaving behind the youth that are more inclined to perpetuate Mormonism's silent generations in the process.

In other words, there's the macro silent generation that is eroding with time and there's the micro silent generation found within Mormonism. Mormon culture tends to lag behind world culture by a generation or two, so maybe it will catch up, where youth are more of a product of the macro culture instead of the product of relatively shielded micro culture. Maybe that process is accelerated since technology erases what were once more defined borders.
Sometimes, the thing you've been looking for your whole life is right there beside you all along.
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SamBee
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Re: Hidden History

Post by SamBee » 06 May 2018, 06:56

Maybe that’s why it’s called the Silent Generation. They’ve seen a lot, and they don’t care to talk about it, particularly avoiding emotionally charged topics.
And now we have the "look at me" generation which doesn't shut up sometimes when it should!
Brigham Young and his appointed lay leaders were outstanding colonizers, and there can be no doubt that they were dedicated to the Kingdom, but the more the specialists depended on them for leadership, the more the specialized industries were apt to suffer from inexpert direction.
This jumps out at me. Still relevant.

Very well-written by the way but I noticed the jab at you for using a pseudonym!
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Re: Hidden History

Post by SamBee » 06 May 2018, 07:02

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 14:09
I only learned of Arrington during my faith transition, but I was amazed that he in the position that he was in did so well. It's a credit to him as an individual and we can reap the benefits. I wish I had read Brodie on my mission, I think I had access to her book at one point, but I had gotten my hands slapped by the Mission President after reading The God Makers.
Great read.
Brodie vs Dekker is no contest. Brodie was trying for some kind of honesty whereas Godmakers is full of downright lies.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Re: Hidden History

Post by SamBee » 06 May 2018, 09:00

On one last note... is the church any worse than national governments? Schools in China aren't even allowed to talk about the Tianamen Square massacre and in Russia, you can't complain about Stalin these days. Meanwhile western governments hold onto info for decades... some unlike the USA never release the information. Places like Latin America have a dark history within living memory.

Even the Roman Catholics and Orthodox churches have history that make the LDS' controversies look tame.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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