Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

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SilentDawning
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Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Apr 2018, 22:54

I was thinking about this today. Was sitting in Sacrament meeting and one of the ladies who crucified me years ago to our Ward, and really hastened my faith crisis, came into Sacrament meeting late and gave me and my wife a REALLY BIG fake smile. Then she sat right behind me. I was afraid she was going to actually talk to me when the meeting was over.

I tried remembering what she had done, and quite frankly, it was fuzzy -- her involvement. I know it was significant, but I don't remember any details. My my hair stands on end when she's around, and I'm VERY uncomfortable. And I credit the experience she was part of, as a precipitating cause of my current state in the church.

I even surmised that if she and her cronies had a change of heart, called a meeting, admitted heartfelt fault, and vowed never to do it again, and begged my forgiveness, would the ill feelings I have toward them, and my current coping strategies suddenly melt away? (By coping strategies, lessened involvement, no tithign, you know).

The answer was "No". Because it's like the question "Why does a humming bird hum?" ...Because he doesn't know the words.

The actual fabric of what happened to me years ago, and for decades before, has faded significantly. I am even sick of talking about it. I am not sure I could get all the facts straight if I tried. The words are gone -- I don't know them. But there his a hum -- a powerful one -- that eclipses the words and directs my behavior now...

So, how do you get rid of the hum?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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Reuben
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by Reuben » 09 Apr 2018, 04:58

It's heightened adrenaline that causes goosebumps and hair standing on end. Based on this and some of your other language, I think you're dealing with not just hurt, but a state of fight or flight brought on by a conditioned fear response. Of course, this makes emotional pain easier to recall...

If that's going on, I'm not surprised. This person hurt you badly. Keep in mind that the only difference between physical pain and emotional pain is that with physical pain, we can point to a body part that's sending the pain signal.

Most people find it impossible to directly control a fear response. It's a deep, primal, self-preserving reaction to context and stimulus. Taking deep abdominal breaths can help. Doing something you regard as fleeing or fighting can help (but of course can harm you in other ways). Stress primes you to go into fight or flight mode, makes evidence that you have nothing to fear harder to establish, and makes that evidence harder to recall once you've established it - so reducing stress can help a lot.

(I've been reading research papers on this lately to understand my own conditioned fear responses. That's just how I roll, I guess.)

You might look into cognitive behavioral therapy, which would give you some mental tools to deal with it.
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nibbler
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by nibbler » 09 Apr 2018, 05:02

SilentDawning wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 22:54
So, how do you get rid of the hum?
That hum could be your subconscious trying to protect you from potential harm in the future. It could also be PTSD.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by SilentDawning » 09 Apr 2018, 07:53

nibbler wrote:
09 Apr 2018, 05:02
SilentDawning wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 22:54
So, how do you get rid of the hum?
That hum could be your subconscious trying to protect you from potential harm in the future. It could also be PTSD.
it's a case for moving away. When you aren't the type whose psychology/genetics/disposition allows for fast forgiveness, I think getting away from the source can help. Even when that source isn't really active in trying to hurt you anymore. I see those women and my hair stands on end.

Years ago, my best friend's brother in law horned in on my fiancee. He broke it up and we never did get married as she pursued him and our engagement fell apart. I was really hurt.

I thought it was rather inconsiderate when he did it. But they used the fact that SWK swooped in on Camilla Kimball when she was already engaged as justification. So it was OK (thanks for that, SWK).

I ended up moving into his Ward, and when I saw him for the first time, I felt like I was going to throw up. My wife saw my pale face and she is good at knowing when I have "crossed a line". She was sympathetic and we left for that Sunday .

He moved a couple weeks later, and about 5-10 years later I ended up in his Ward again. He was married to someone other than my fiancee. We could talk, got along, worked together -- time away from seeing him helped. Also, being married steadily to someone other than my former fiancee that whole time made the whole thing fade away into insignificance.

I think getting away from these women would help. I find it hard when people are unrepentant after they have caused severe pain. Sure, gospel says I'm the worse sinner (which I don't believe), but that is where my disposition leads me...and I can't seem to shake it off.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

Roy
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by Roy » 09 Apr 2018, 10:10

nibbler wrote:
09 Apr 2018, 05:02
That hum could be your subconscious trying to protect you from potential harm in the future. It could also be PTSD.
Yes, my thought goes to anxiety or PTSD. I imagine that there is a spectrum. When a person experiences trauma there can be certain "triggers" that bring on a fight or flight response.

In those cases, it is your subconscious, instinct, or lizard brain that is giving you the hum and it can be difficult or impossible to reason it away. IOW coping mechanisms can be helpful but not curative.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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dande48
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by dande48 » 09 Apr 2018, 19:38

SilentDawning wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 22:54
So, how do you get rid of the hum?
Spend a little more time in graveyards. I'm dead serious.

Puns aside, I've found it theraputic. It helps oreint myself with the right perspective. It helps me to stop worrying or caring about the pettiness of others, and get on with living. The dead don't gossip, don't smile, don't hum... They're excellent listeners. They make good company.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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mom3
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by mom3 » 09 Apr 2018, 20:19

Spend a little more time in graveyards.
Amen. I find it helps me. Sit, think, talk, presume. It's one of the holiest most healing places I attend.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SilentDawning
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by SilentDawning » 09 Apr 2018, 21:17

Doctor told me some people's brains are more sensitive to emotion, and mine is definitely. When I feel things, I really feel things. And they make a really strong memory....I wish I didn't have that characteristic -- it serves no good purpose I can see. It creates long lasting memories that can be very powerful from a feeling perspective, even though the details are gone.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 11 Apr 2018, 11:57

I think of a conditioned response. There was someone in my ward that I butted heads with a long time ago. In my mind he was manipulative, power hungry, and arrogant.(He really was too lol) I understood why people left the church after working with him. I dreaded seeing him, and had to remove myself from meetings when he was there. I gave him that power which I hated.
Fast forward a few years and he seemed to have gone through some humbling experiences. No more of the 'you'll do this because it's your duty' manipulation. Less high and mighty.
We ended up going through wood badge together, serving together, both our attitudes had changed.
I still have these little feelings of mistrust. Even though our interactions have been fine for the last 90 times we've interacted, those former 10 are still lingering back in my mind. I'm really not one to hold a grudge, but like 'forgiveness does not equate to trust', I've forgiven but I can't trust. My conditioned response is not to trust.

What helped for me was to forgive him for who he is or was. He is going through this journey on his own just as I am and will not only make mistakes but do some really awful things. I won't hold it against him, but I won't trust him with my feelings nor let him into my inner circle.

Eventually I took the power back as well. I realized I am a volunteer in this organization, and his forced sense of duty no longer worked on me. I said 'that's interesting I'll have to think about that and get back to you' when he pressured me to make a decision for his benefit.

I don't know what will work for you, but don't give them anything more. Slip out from under the weight however you can and find peace.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

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dande48
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Re: Can't remember why I'm hurt but I still am!

Post by dande48 » 11 Apr 2018, 13:35

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
11 Apr 2018, 11:57
Fast forward a few years and he seemed to have gone through some humbling experiences. No more of the 'you'll do this because it's your duty' manipulation. Less high and mighty.
...
What helped for me was to forgive him for who he is or was.
I think there is a lot of wisdom in this. Thank you for sharing.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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