April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15720
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 Mar 2018, 10:01

People I know who are heterodox to some degree and know Elder Gong are ecstatic. The stories I am reading are beyond encouraging.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Joni
Posts: 554
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 08:36

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by Joni » 31 Mar 2018, 10:22

I am furious that the first talk out of the gate is one about following your leaders even if they are imperfect. Furious. Because I know that this is the only response that we will get to the Joseph Bishop scandal, the Rob Porter scandal, the many many failings of the church hierarchy to protect the vulnerable is "oh well, sometimes leaders are imperfect but they represent Christ so you have to follow them anyway."

It literally makes me sick. Who was Joseph Bishop representing when he asked a sister missionary to expose her breasts to him? Is that what Jesus Christ suffered and died for?

This isn't just wrong, It is EVIL.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5657
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Mar 2018, 10:26

Stevenson was a bit too much on the prophet adoration side for my liking but his explanation of the process is probably good for the uninitiated. I came in expecting quite a bit of prophet adoration, so I am at least prepared.

I'm liking Robbins because of his focus on the Savior, sacrament, forgiveness, and grace. Recommended.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15720
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 Mar 2018, 10:28

Overall, the talks this session have been good-very good. Elder Robbins' talk about growing from failure and repentance is excellent.

(This is not a response to Joni's comment. It simply is a comment in the flow of this session.)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5657
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Mar 2018, 10:31

Curt Sunshine wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 10:01
People I know who are heterodox to some degree and know Elder Gong are ecstatic. The stories I am reading are beyond encouraging.
In his position overseeing the northeast US I have heard from him a couple times and my SP references trainings he has had with Elder Gong. He was my first choice and I am more than pleased.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5657
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Mar 2018, 10:44

I have to say I was expecting more out of Anderson despite his orthodoxy. Another prophet adoration talk. Two of the three apostles have focused on it this morning and the third also talked about it. I may have to find something else to do should this continue.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15720
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 Mar 2018, 10:59

I expected the focus on the Prophet, since this is the first session with a new President. It happens every time. It is what it is.

I liked the other talks, and some were excellent.

Also, we don't celebrate an extended Easter season. Today isn't Easter Sunday. If we get more of the same tomorrow, I will be disappointed. Today? Meh. I get it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
Ilovechrist77
Posts: 617
Joined: 08 Nov 2011, 21:42

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 31 Mar 2018, 11:19

I liked most of talks, except for the one talking about how great a guy Nelson is and Anderen's talk. Even though we're not supposed to blindly follow the prophet, Andersen's talk seemed more like a gentler version of Ezra Taft Benson's 14 Fundamentals For Following The Prophet, in my opinion.

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2783
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by LookingHard » 02 Apr 2018, 03:57

Joni wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 10:22
I am furious that the first talk out of the gate is one about following your leaders even if they are imperfect. Furious. Because I know that this is the only response that we will get to the Joseph Bishop scandal, the Rob Porter scandal, the many many failings of the church hierarchy to protect the vulnerable is "oh well, sometimes leaders are imperfect but they represent Christ so you have to follow them anyway."

It literally makes me sick. Who was Joseph Bishop representing when he asked a sister missionary to expose her breasts to him? Is that what Jesus Christ suffered and died for?

This isn't just wrong, It is EVIL.
I have been digging into the details on the Bishop scandal and it seems to be the church is lying left and right and showing they have generally disbelieved victims and more worried about the church's reputation than evildoers in its ranks. It just got a lot harder to go do church. Much harder.

User avatar
dande48
Posts: 648
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: April 2018 Saturday Morning session

Post by dande48 » 02 Apr 2018, 07:55

LookingHard wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 03:57
I have been digging into the details on the Bishop scandal and it seems to be the church is lying left and right and showing they have generally disbelieved victims and more worried about the church's reputation than evildoers in its ranks. It just got a lot harder to go do church. Much harder.
It's not ethical, especially for the "One and Only True Church upon the Face of the Earth". But the Church has ALWAYS placed its reputation as the top priority. With any high ranking position, I know one of the interview questions asked is "Is there anything in your past or relating to your conduct which could reflect poorly on the good name of the Church?" (not sure on the exact wording). A lack of trust in Church leaders really damages the membership's faith. I remember my wife saying to me how saddened she was there were protesters inside general conference. I'm pretty sure she didn't understand what they said, or is aware of the Joseph Bishop story. Towards the end of conference, the Joseph Bishop incident was indirectly mentioned, which addressed the concerns of the members aware of the situation, while not drawing attention to it from the rest. I thought that was very tactful of them.

One of the difficulties the Church faces, is that Church opposition can and often does lie to further their ends of disrupting the Church. Not to sound Machiavellian, but that puts an open and honest policy standard at a clear disadvantage. Remember, Christ was the most perfect and honest among us, and he ended up murdered within 3 years of his ministry. The Church is trying very hard to avoid crucifixion.

I think there are two ways to address the Bishop incident: First, have an optionally anonymous complaint submission form for members only on the LDS website, which can be tied to anyone in a position of authority. Any allegations of abuse should be invested by an official employee of the Church, with the findings brought before the next tier of leadership. Second, rework confessions. The Catholics do a phenomenal job at this. The priests in Catholic confessions don't dole out punishments. The patron and priest sit in separate booths, with a physical mesh barrier between them. They can discuss any sins that they feel bad about, without repercussions. And anyone can visit the confessional booth without the associated negative stigma. I remember once visiting with a bishop for a temple recommend interview, and felt the need to discuss some of the unorthodox teachings of a bioethics class. My Girlfriend at the time was waiting outside for me, and felt AWFULLY concerned I was in there for so long. I think she assumed I had a porn problem.

My point is Catholic confessionals are productive and healthy. Mormon confessionals are not.
"The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy. "
-Albert Campus

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Post Reply