Demotion from First Presidency?

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SilentDawning
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by SilentDawning » 31 Mar 2018, 20:13

Curt Sunshine wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 15:36
Personality issues aside, Elder Oaks is the most likely next president, so it made sense to move him into the FP as the 1st Counselor. That wasn't a historical given, by any stretch, but it made sense. Likewise, Elder Eyring was the 1st Counselor, so it made sense to drop him to 2nd Counselor. Uchtdorf was the 2nd Counselor (and the "junior apostle" of the FP), so it made sense to move him out of the FP.
As usual you come out with reasonable explanations that make us think. Looking at it from our own narrow perspective, we see Uchdorft as an advocate for the disenfranchised, so any hit to his position in the church would be seen as an affront to us somewhat, and a demotion for him in speaking up.

But I see from your comments there are other considerations.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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kate5
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by kate5 » 31 Mar 2018, 21:29

It didn't seem to matter to President Monson who was next in line to be the prophet when he selected his counselors. What they did to Uchtdorf and those who desperately needed a beacon of light to look toward was disrespectful and cold. I also want to mention that many, many women loved Pres. Uchtdorf and please don't tell me it was because of his looks. :roll: He acted like he understood us; as if he just "got" us. Inactive people loved him. My husband once had a nonmember tell him that if Uchtdorf became prophet he might consider being baptized. Many going through a faith crisis were drawn to him.

It doesn't matter how you slice it to me, as Silent Dawning said, he DID represent the disenfranchised, those without a voice in this church. My heart felt empty today. I miss seeing him. It really doesn't matter that he gets to talk once. Him being in the First Presidency made some of us feel like we were somewhat represented. Now that is gone.

I really don't care about their snails pace, micro changes for the better. I will never have a voice in this church because of my gender and my different viewpoints. I don't matter and I know it.

This post sounds very "poor me" but I do feel sorry for myself. :smile:

I

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mom3
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by mom3 » 31 Mar 2018, 22:13

He acted like he understood us; as if he just "got" us.
Any man who can talk to girls from 8 to 80, again and again, did get us. I believe even if he didn't fully "get" someone/something, he was willing to bridge a gap, open a space, something.

Like you - this is going to hurt for a long time. He really did make room for everyone.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by Roy » 01 Apr 2018, 11:19

Also, I believe the church would like to avoid having any particularly popular church leaders that are not the prophet. It can place the church in uncomfortable situations if a particular apostle (or other church leader) develops a strong following. The church has a long history and institutional memory of schisms.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

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mom3
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by mom3 » 01 Apr 2018, 11:29

It can place the church in uncomfortable situations if a particular apostle (or other church leader) develops a strong following. The church has a long history and institutional memory of schisms.
True Roy. In this situation it would have been easy to create a schism.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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nibbler
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Re: Demotion from First Presidency?

Post by nibbler » 08 Apr 2018, 15:06

Hey, we can all come up with reasons as to why it was or wasn't a demotion. :angel:
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass the world is too full to talk about.
― Rumi

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