Church getting rid of PF personnel

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Post Reply
User avatar
QuestionAbound
Posts: 202
Joined: 13 May 2013, 17:57

Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by QuestionAbound » 18 Mar 2018, 14:30

Yep, it's true.
The Church is now making the switch to using large companies to handle church property management.
How many church members will now be out of jobs?
It kinda makes me sad.
They've already cut back on their employee list - LDS Social Services took a huge hit not that long ago and now the counselors are stretched way thin.
:(

User avatar
dande48
Posts: 960
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by dande48 » 18 Mar 2018, 16:54

That's tough. I've had a few friends who have worked for the area, and was good friends growing up with the son of the head property manager in my home stake. I always heard that the Church was one of the best employers. Large efforts have been made in the past to transfer those employees who's jobs became obsolete, rather than lay them off.

I am not a fan of the "Corperation of" the LDS Church, but they are pretty big employers. I wonder, has the Church been financially struggling as of late? Otherwise, it'd feel like they were placing money before the members, acting out of business savy instead of concern for their employees. I wouldn't put it past them, but I sure hope not.

Not that the Church would ever be financially transparent.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15996
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Mar 2018, 18:33

Frankly, it's a bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

People like to complain about the corporate side of the Church, then the Church is criticized by those same people when it eliminates something that is more corporate than religious.

Frankly, it probably is less expensive to hire property management companies than to deal with all of the issues of internal employees - and drawing a clear line between what things it should maintain and what things it should outsource is impossible, especially knowing it will get criticized no matter which decision it makes.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2846
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by LookingHard » 18 Mar 2018, 19:26

I guess being in the big bad corporate world, this just seems like another day in the office. I don't look down on the church for making this change, but I do hope the folks in PF are generally transferred to the companies taking on the contract.

I just hope that part of the contract is the weekly cleaning of the church buildings.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5914
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by DarkJedi » 19 Mar 2018, 05:08

I heard this yesterday as well. Like the elimination of janitors a few years back, I don't think it's a good idea and I don't think we'll be better off for it.

(And no, I don't think this has anything to do with the church hurting financially. Will this save money? Probably but that's just money in the bank.)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Roadrunner
Posts: 868
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 15:17

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by Roadrunner » 19 Mar 2018, 08:44

Unfortunately we don't know many details of the reasons behind the decision. I can easily imagine circumstances which would make management by a professional property company perfectly logical. Hopefully they will take care of anyone who is displaced, which I think they would.

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2846
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by LookingHard » 19 Mar 2018, 10:21

Agreed Roadrunner. What I have seen with transactions like this in the corporate world that the employees are absorbed into the company that gets the contract and they can have varying contractual requirements (nobody transfered over can be let go in 1 or 2 years).

The company surely would want to keep the very competent folks, but there may be some that just are not that great. And sometimes there is a cultural clash. I have found that philosophy of, "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way" is the proper mindset with dealing with mergers and such. If you just grumble about "the good old days of the way it was" people tire of that and it is history. Move on by either 100% joining with the new team or move to a new job.

So it could be that they are "take care of", but once in the new company they don't like it. What if they serve alcohol at the company christmas party!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 4885
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by SamBee » 19 Mar 2018, 14:51

Curt Sunshine wrote:
18 Mar 2018, 18:33

Frankly, it probably is less expensive to hire property management companies than to deal with all of the issues of internal employees - and drawing a clear line between what things it should maintain and what things it should outsource is impossible, especially knowing it will get criticized no matter which decision it makes.
Not sure about that. I have seen the long term effects of privatisation here, and it has *not* cut costs in many cases but raised them as the companies charge as much as they can get away with.

Also having worked in outsourced companies, there are issues with regular work, job security, pensions etc.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 6757
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Mar 2018, 13:50

Curt Sunshine wrote:
18 Mar 2018, 18:33
Frankly, it's a bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

People like to complain about the corporate side of the Church, then the Church is criticized by those same people when it eliminates something that is more corporate than religious.

Frankly, it probably is less expensive to hire property management companies than to deal with all of the issues of internal employees - and drawing a clear line between what things it should maintain and what things it should outsource is impossible, especially knowing it will get criticized no matter which decision it makes.

I have mixed feelings. My commitment issues have often stemmed from the mixture of temporal and spiritual in the church. It comes across as grandiose and above the earth on Sunday, and then they won't let you go on a mission because you don't have any money -- while they sit on piles of it. Or the leaders act like captains of commerce rather than spiritual advisers.

It can seem like the church is not what it seems when they have to let temporal concerns eclipse spiritual ones. And the maxim "all things are spiritual" doesn't wash with me....

I think after the dust settles, church members are better off finding jobs in areas outside the church. Sad the church would let them go, but at least those people, often members, don't have to reconcile the fact that the larger than life stories we hear at church don't translate into day-to-day operational matters where money, real estate, repairs, and other business decisions have to be made.

I just hope part of the new deal is the hired company cleans the chapel for us. I don't like been voluntold anymore.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 6757
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Church getting rid of PF personnel

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Mar 2018, 14:11

QuestionAbound wrote:
18 Mar 2018, 14:30
They've already cut back on their employee list - LDS Social Services took a huge hit not that long ago and now the counselors are stretched way thin.
:(
This is the part that bothers me more. It's been a pet peeve that it's nearly impossible to get access to services like these -- which are closer to the heart of spirituality and family health -- than the facilities, in my view. It's decisions like these that make my own personal decisions regarding the church easier.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

Post Reply