Oscarson quote about the Spirit

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DarkJedi
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Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Mar 2018, 05:50

mom3 wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 22:18
our male GD teacher is fairly adept at it
One of my former Bishops can cry at the drop of the hat. Especially when he is at the podium. The Jekyll/Hyde side of him is a piece of work. Off the podium he is condescending, malicious, nasty. I am certain it was the crying that got him the calling.
Must be the twin of the guy in my ward. Seriously.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by Roy » 05 Mar 2018, 14:32

My take on the new camp guide.

I liked that they are giving greater leadership roles to youth leaders.

I love that they strongly discourage pranks and other somewhat mean things that may have been traditions in some areas.

I am conflicted about the elimination of certification.
Pro - as they mentioned the certifications might not be practical in every area of the world.
Con - without the certifications (first aid, wilderness survival etc.) what practical skills will the YW be learning from camp?

This brings me to my final point. Once they strip out the certifications, what is left besides fun craft activities and emotionally manipulative activities?

However, I celebrate that the leadership is recognizing that there are certain emotionally manipulative activities that may test false positive for the spirit. I also celebrate that the leadership is asking that spiritual experiences not be forced at camp.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by DarkJedi » 05 Mar 2018, 16:11

I, too, am troubled a bit by the elimination of certifications. I asked DW about her thoughts since she is camp director. She's all in favor because most girls didn't want to do it anyway and it takes a lot of time on behalf YW leaders. She also pointed out the change in Scouting which no longer requires YM 14+ to participate in those kinds of activities.

I likewise asked the question about what they do at camp now, and she answered it's supposed to be much more "spiritually" based, which does open it up to emotional manipulation. Perhaps that is the root of Oscarson's comment.

I should note that in my state there are very strict rules about camp, and the certification stuff was all done before the beginning of camp anyway because actual camp is only 3 days to avoid many legal requirements for a longer camp.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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mom3
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Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by mom3 » 05 Mar 2018, 22:47

I have wrestled with camp since I was a girl. I am a sports girl and family camping girl, but not girls camp camping. I used to complain to my mom all the time about it, but she pointed out something to me. She said getting away can be very healing for some people. Especially teenagers.

As a kid we had a cool, church owned camp. A lot of our time was spent building the camp. It was rugged, filthy, primitive but it did provide a unique outlet.

When I was an adult leader, I really dug my heals in. Certification seemed unnecessary. At least the camp manual version. I am all about first aid, outdoor safety, even star gazing. But after that - count me out.

When I was the ward YW President I wanted the girls to get away from life at home. Not away from family, but away from all the typical high school girl crap. I insisted on campsite's next to the beach. I threw out the manual. Everyone got a patch. The week(we did a full week) was service projects, nature hikes, campfire time, secret sisters and uplifting stories.

I don't know if it was the right answer or not, but we had one of the closest YW groups I had ever seen. They really had each other's backs. I like to think that camp was a part of it.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by Roy » 06 Mar 2018, 09:55

mom3 wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 22:47
I threw out the manual.
the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
Thankfully the new camp guide gives explicit permission for adaptation. The camp guide is to be a springboard - not a straitjacket!
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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nibbler
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Re: Oscarson quote about the Spirit

Post by nibbler » 08 Apr 2018, 14:57

DarkJedi wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 05:39
“Sometimes young women — especially those who are just learning to respond to the Spirit — might think, ‘everybody else is crying, why am I not crying? I must not be feeling the Spirit,’” Sister Oscarson said. “People can feel the Spirit working in their lives and everybody reacts differently to it. Stick with the scriptures, the basic doctrines of Christ and of the gospel, and choose appropriate activities that invite the Spirit, but which don’t try to manipulate emotions.”
I think the appeal to emotion is way overplayed in the church, not just among YW. Post FC I have come to recognize that "good feelings" have nothing to do with the Spirit.
This post will be a bit of a tangent but...

This sort of thing is really embedded into the culture... in much more ways than simply crying in public. Nearly every single Sunday I hear something similar to the following from the person conducting a meeting or saying the prayer:

"We thank the for the spirit that we have felt in the meeting today."
"Wasn't the spirit really strong during our sacrament meeting today?"

Language like this is the filler we insert into empty places in our conversations and I wonder what effect it has on people that feel like they haven't felt the spirit. Do they wonder whether something is wrong with them because everyone around them is claiming how powerful or strong the spirit has been during a meeting but they just felt "normal."

Where I'm going with this is that when we put people on the spot by asking things like, "Wasn't the spirit powerful?" it can be a passive aggressive way of saying, "You should have felt the spirit." and I think it leaves a lot of adults wondering why they never felt the spirit all their lives. All because someone was saying the equivalent of, "I really liked this meeting." but in a way that placed great expectations onto others.
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel... that makes me feel ANGRY!
— Robot Devil

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