Questions About Faith

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Kipper
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Questions About Faith

Post by Kipper » 11 Feb 2018, 12:18

Gospel Doctrine today (DW teaches) was about acting with faith ex. when Noah built the ark it wasn't raining. The question what commandments require faith to obey? Several remarks then one answer was accepting callings... I don't remember the whole dialog but this is one of my stumbling blocks. It seems to me that a calling has designed into it a method to compel and also make the decision to call you something it is not. Just MHO which I can only disclose here. What other commandments do you feel require faith to obey? Is it all based on faith alone?

Roy
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by Roy » 11 Feb 2018, 13:19

As a missionary, sometimes I would extend an invitation to church and the person would respond with, "If God wants."

This was very frustrating because 1) I felt very sure God wanted this person in church and 2) this usually was said as a way to avoid commitment.

In this way I can agree that accepting a calling takes faith. I believe that it takes faith that I will be alive tomorrow and relatively available to dedicate time and effort. I believe that it takes faith that I might be able to step out of my comfort zone and stretch myself in ways that might lead to growth.

One of the advantages of a faith community is the support they can offer in hard times. In regards to Noah building the ark when it wasn't raining, perhaps it takes faith for a person to contribute to a faith community - believing that they will return the favor for him if he should ever need it.

P.S. I also tend to ask for 24 hours to consider new callings and will turn it down if it is not a good fit. "Stretching outside of my comfort zone" can be a good thing - "Throwing me into the deep end to teach me how to swim" is not. I must advocate for myself to determine the difference.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 Feb 2018, 15:53

Anything takes faith if the person has no prior experience with it - if there is no "seen evidence" of the outcome.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by DarkJedi » 11 Feb 2018, 17:44

Just a different 2 cents worth about what faith isn't. Faith is not knowing the sun will rise. The sun will rise and that has nothing to do with faith because we do see it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Kipper
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by Kipper » 11 Feb 2018, 18:13

How about faith as it relates specifically to commandants? That was the question in GD today. I gave an example where I don't have faith. I discretely left class before tithing came up. WoW?

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DarkJedi
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by DarkJedi » 11 Feb 2018, 18:44

I suppose most people would say it takes faith to pay tithing or live the WoW. But faith in what? There certainly are different meanings of the word, so which meaning are we talking about? In my experience we are not always talking about the same thing.

I don't have a simple answer to your question. I do pay tithing, not on gross, and I do live the WoW although I eat meat in summer, could eat more grains, and for those who are wrong the on the subject anyway I drink caffeine regularly (but not daily). But I won't say it's because I have faith because I struggle with faith. I will say I do these things of choice - I want to do them. And I do other things similarly, also because I want to. I do not expect any reward for doing them, however.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Beefster
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by Beefster » 11 Feb 2018, 20:28

For me, faith is a willingness to act despite uncertainty. It's not about "knowing" or believing. There is some hope involved- that your actions will lead to something good.

I'd say faith is only tangentially related to keeping commandments. That would be more of a "trust" which is sort of a second meaning of faith I guess- the sort of faith that counts on another person or being to deliver as promised. But it's hard to trust a delivery when you don't know what will be delivered or if/when it will be delivered. "The Lord's Blessings" are so nebulous that I'm not even sure it's fair to attribute them to God. Sure, in some way, everything could come from God, but other than thanking Him for the things we have, I don't think it's productive to try to guess the sources of the outcomes in our lives. Sometimes a consequence is just a consequence. It doesn't have to come from God.

The thing about commandments is that there are no explicit blessings for keeping them. I think they're inspired guideposts pointing out pitfalls to avoid in life. I'm not sure God really works any other way. He loves us and he gives us commandments for our benefit. None of his commandments are arbitrary...

But then when men get a hold of his commandments, they interpret them incorrectly, over-emphasize non-essential parts, add legalistic rules on top of them, and otherwise morph them into something so different from the original commandment that the rule is once again arbitrary and the truth in it is lost by the time they get to the common man. The church is not immune to this phenomenon.

Church leaders are only His imperfect messengers. I think we ought to be careful that we're following God's Commandments and not Man's Rules. It's perfectly reasonable to "lack faith" in callings or church policy. Not living the WoW does not show a lack of faith because it was never a commandment in the first place, although it is divinely inspired and it has clear health benefits (especially in the parts that most members ignore). Tithing policy has changed a lot over the history of the church. God doesn't need your money. That's not to say that you shouldn't pay tithing. Counsel with the Lord and find something that works for you.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Often I hear doubt being presented as the opposite of faith but I think certainty does a better job of filling that role. Doubts can help faith grow, certainty almost always makes faith shrink. --nibbler

Kipper
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by Kipper » 11 Feb 2018, 23:23

Beefster wrote:
11 Feb 2018, 20:28
For me, faith is a willingness to act despite uncertainty. It's not about "knowing" or believing. There is some hope involved- that your actions will lead to something good.
Good post sir/mam. I have been taught that faith in a commandment is following a commandment believing that a reward will follow before having any certainty. For what it's worth.

AmyJ
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by AmyJ » 12 Feb 2018, 06:25

I think the first part of having faith is figuring out which commandment(s) are actually commandment(s), and which are just cultural traditions, recommendations, or someone's good idea or someone's means of measurement to "keep up with the Jones's".

To me, Loving God and Loving Others are commandments as far as I know about God and how to serve others in my capacity. There is also an implied commandment to love and take care of yourself - hold yourself as equal to others. This is what I am focused on improving in.

I live the WoW abstinence wise because a) it's not a good idea with my family DNA to mess with alcohol/drugs - even my caffeine usage I consulted with my husband and my doctor for and am striving to be responsible with, b) it's a habit, c) it would strain my relationship with my husband.

I am re-thinking my definitions of modesty - I may put my toddler and 8 year old in sundresses without a shirt underneath in public this summer, not sure.

I guess for me, instead of judging those I used to see as deviating - I am starting to say "hey - you are here! what are you working on for you? I will be happy to cheer you on and mourn with you when you encounter mourning situations."

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nibbler
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Re: Questions About Faith

Post by nibbler » 12 Feb 2018, 06:31

Kipper wrote:
11 Feb 2018, 23:23
I have been taught that faith in a commandment is following a commandment believing that a reward will follow before having any certainty. For what it's worth.
Yesterday we had a whole lesson on just that.

Often I hear doubt being presented as the opposite of faith but I think certainty does a better job of filling that role. Doubts can help faith grow, certainty almost always makes faith shrink.
The night stared me in the face, amorphous, blind, infinite, without frontiers. Not a single star relieved the darkness behind the glass.
― Stanisław Lem

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