Setting Goals

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Heber13
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Setting Goals

Post by Heber13 » 03 Feb 2018, 13:14

My HPGL wants me to lead a discussion tomorrow in 3rd hour council meetings on the topic of how we can achieve our goal to have 150 people attend sacrament meeting by increasing temple attendance.

Any ideas for me?

How do you feel about goals and how would you suggest it be approached?

We can't pressure others to get temple recommends...we can invite...but is it going to be just a pressure-packed initiative? I have my concerns on the goal, and so don't even know how to lead a discussion.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by DarkJedi » 03 Feb 2018, 14:22

Topics like this sometimes come up in high council. My usual response is that one of the most important things I learned on my mission was that we can't set goals for other people. Even if it's a "group goal," everyone in the group (or at least enough to meet your goal) have to buy in. If it's not their goal it's just that plain - it's not their goal. You have alluded to that idea with your comment about inviting. That's not very helpful for you in your task, though. And just for what it's worth, if they're not attending SM, why the heck does anyone think they're going to go to the temple? Isn't attending meetings a TR question? Or is it some kind of reverse psychology. Heck, I do attend SM most of the time and I don't go to the temple.
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Gerald
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by Gerald » 03 Feb 2018, 14:26

The vocabulary of the LDS Church perplexes me. And nothing perplexes me more than the constant, incessant, and persistent use of the word "goal." My current bishop is really into goals and has set goals for the ward, has asked each auxiliary presidency to set organizational goals, and has pushed each ward family to set "family goals." I know, I know "if you don't know where you're going, how will you get there?" (is that Lewis Carroll?) However, something about the language we use to discuss "getting there" just sets my teeth on edge. Maybe the problem I have is the tendency for the goal to "dehumanize" an activity that is, at its basics, very human. If your goal states "150 people attending sacrament meeting", it automatically reduces each one of those flawed, complicated, mysterious individuals to a simple number. That is okay in business and government settings (and often necessary) but if there's any place we SHOULDN'T be reduced to a number, it should be in our places of worship.

Sorry to not be more helpful but it's a button-pushing topic for me.
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
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mom3
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by mom3 » 03 Feb 2018, 14:36

What if you started with an analogy of going to the doctor and being told you needed to lose weight. The doctor may even be right in his assessment but that alone won't magic the weight loss. You have to buy into it.

Then move into "should we make people buy into something?" See where the discussion heads.

If it moves to setting a goal for other people you could possibly drop back and mention that a friend (and I am a friend) said that Elder Kearon admonished active members to just befriend less connected members. Not making it a project, but just being a friend, hanging out, etc. That maybe when that person feels loved they may return. (I mean he is in the President of the 70. He outranks the HPGL.)

Maybe grab some Hinckley quotes for the discussion. https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-of ... h?lang=eng


I think you can gently steer the ship toward loving our fellowmen where ever they are. You have great communication skills.
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Heber13
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by Heber13 » 03 Feb 2018, 16:10

Great comments.

Funny you bring up weight loss as the analogy...I was talking to my wife about that this morning...and frankly...I'm not bought into it right now. I know I need to lose 20lbs, but it isn't like it is urgent. I SHOULD lose weight...but I'm also ok where I'm at and the level of effort to lose it is not for me right now. Maybe soon, but that's just where I'm at. I play basketball twice a week, I run twice a week and track my steps at about 10k per day. So...there is no urgency.

I could see that fitting in with many people in our Ward. They know they SHOULD go to the temple, but don't feel they will be doing that now with their lifestyle.

I need to ask those questions.

So...maybe the goals are how to friend people. How to communicate when temple trips are being scheduled, and talk openly about temple visits in talks lessons and testimonies, but steer clear of the challenges that get offensive? We shouldn't assume everyone wants to go or can go. And that is ok.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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nibbler
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by nibbler » 03 Feb 2018, 17:10

I hate to be that guy (ha, no I don't ;) ) but... mon dieu what a terrible discussion topic.

I'm also going to feel bad later for derailing the thread but some time after that I'll forget what I did and go back to feeling normal again, so I'm skipping way ahead to that time and I'll go through my plan to derail the thread.

I'm sorry you got tapped to lead that discussion.

This is a part of my issue with these discussions... they aren't the quorum's discussions, they're topics that the leaders feel should be discussed in the quorums. Big difference. This could all be corrected by simply asking the quorum for topics they'd like to discuss... and I'm rushing to judgement, maybe your quorum all got together and decided that the thing that's really weighing heavily on their hearts is that sacrament meeting attendance is sitting at 135 and they'd really like to dust off the word sesquicentum in their next quarterly report.

I'm being facetious but at the same time that's a church centered goal. If the church (organization) ministered to people as opposed to the people ministering to the church (organization), you'd get your numbers.

One approach I like to take as I sit in meetings with those types of topics is to try to imagine what it would be like if someone walked in off the street, knew nothing Mormon, and their impression of that meeting was going to make or break their decision to join the church, be saved, the whole 9 yards. Would they feel a connection with their spiritual side if the meeting felt like an attempt to motivate a demoralized sales force... because that's how those sorts of meetings often turn out.
DarkJedi wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 14:22
And just for what it's worth, if they're not attending SM, why the heck does anyone think they're going to go to the temple? Isn't attending meetings a TR question? Or is it some kind of reverse psychology. Heck, I do attend SM most of the time and I don't go to the temple.
I think the goal is to use the temple like a carrot to get people to attend SM. But it is weird, like they did a mashup of two oft-discussed topics at church, two birds, one meeting, and didn't realize how goofy it sounded. "We know we need to go to the temple more." "We know people need to attend SM more." Look at it cross-eyed long enough, and there's your goal.

Our topic is about prioritizing the church in your life. They made the mistake of telling people what it would be beforehand. I already know where I prioritize the church in my life, so I won't be attending. ;)

Best of luck kid, best of luck.
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nibbler
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by nibbler » 03 Feb 2018, 18:27

And you're leading a discussion, not giving a lesson. Start out with the question they gave you and hope there are a few talkative people in your group. Hopefully you can fall into a pattern of pointing to the next guy that wants to make a comment the whole time.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold
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dande48
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by dande48 » 03 Feb 2018, 23:22

Goals are usually a bad approach. When you make a goal, you've failed to reach it. When you've reached it, it's no longer a goal.

Let's say you are 30lbs overweight. If you make it to a goal to lose 30 lbs. You diet, you exercise, you calorie count... you check the scale every day. And every time you check the scale, you are reminded, you are overweight. There will be times you feel you're trying all you can, and getting nowhere. But if you keep at it, you just might meet your goal. Then the goal is finished. The effort stops. You gain back the weight you lost. It's a bad approach. Missionaries take on similar goals all the time. What happens is, people join the Church and go inactive within a month or two. The goals might be met, but there's not much to show for it.

It's much better to build a system of behavior. If people aren't attending, it's because their reasons for staying away are greater than their reasons for coming. It's as simple as that. You want to BE the sort of ward people want to attend. Back to the weightloss example, if you forget about the weight, and focus on biking to work, or lose the chocolate stash in your desk drawer, you'll lose weight without even trying. Better yet, you'll be successful every step of the way. Systems are all about "playing the odds" and "bettering your position". Start by asking, why would people want to come to our sacrament meeting? And focus on those things that'll improve the situation.

As for using temple attendance to increase sacrament meeting... I don't have the slightest clue what one has to do with the other. Too often in the Church, we make poor connections between behaviors and desired outcomes. I think this is one of them.
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nibbler
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by nibbler » 04 Feb 2018, 07:28

If we like the weight loss analogy.

High school nibbler needed to gain 20 pounds, over the hill nibbler needs to lose about 20 pounds, and church is that place where both nibblers go to have someone challenge them to accept the goal of losing 100 pounds.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold
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Roy
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Re: Setting Goals

Post by Roy » 04 Feb 2018, 12:34

Heber13 wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 13:14
My HPGL wants me to lead a discussion tomorrow in 3rd hour council meetings on the topic of how we can achieve our goal to have 150 people attend sacrament meeting by increasing temple attendance.
This is really weird. I do not have a TR. No way, being encouraged to attend the temple is going to increase my SM attendance.

Are they saying that people that do not attend SM all the time should feel guilty about going to the temple and that the guilt should increase SM attendance. I believe the two may be correlated but not causational.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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