New approach to sexual assualt

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Roy
Posts: 4785
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

New approach to sexual assualt

Post by Roy » 01 Feb 2018, 15:13

The Mormon doctrine of agency requires consent for all sexual contact, and sexual assault victims are never to blame since a perpetrator deprived them of their agency, BYU's dean of Family, Home and Social Sciences said Tuesday during a campus devotional.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... ional.html

I am excited by how this devotional appears to retool existing doctrine (of agency) to help solve a problem currently facing the church. I am interested in your thoughts.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

DancingCarrot
Posts: 160
Joined: 23 May 2014, 18:24

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by DancingCarrot » 01 Feb 2018, 16:32

Love, love, love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live. -Dumbledore

Roll away your stone, I'll roll away mine. Together we can see what we will find. -Mumford & Sons

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 4666
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by SamBee » 02 Feb 2018, 04:57

This is ttue doctrine. :thumbup:
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15776
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 Feb 2018, 20:42

There is much to love in it. My wife and daughters appreciated it greatly.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
dande48
Posts: 757
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by dande48 » 02 Feb 2018, 21:20

Excellent doctrine, I hope everyone believed in. God bless the victims of sexual abuse! But is it really new? I remember being taught this back 15 years ago at least. Of course, it was all in balance of the whole "chewed gum"/"bruised fruit" analogy, which seemed at odds with the atonement.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

User avatar
mom3
Posts: 3406
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by mom3 » 02 Feb 2018, 23:50

My daughter wrote a lengthy public Facebook post in support of this. Moreover, in her statement she made her first public statement of being a survivor. A member of Me Too. Those are the hardest words a mother can read.

I knew my daughter at home was a member of Me Too. We were here with her when it happened and when she pursued telling her school authorities (not an LDS school). But to read that my other daughter - the BYU grad - had her own story broke my heart. At the same time it answered so many questions.

The conversation, lessons, and responses have to change. I knew it before. Now I require it.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
Posts: 4785
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by Roy » 04 Feb 2018, 11:32

dande48 wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 21:20
But is it really new? I remember being taught this back 15 years ago at least.
New? I suppose that depends. A long time ago in the church there was this notion that a woman should fight off her attacker - even to the point of death - before allowing her "virtue" to be taken. I do not believe that this has been spoken explicitly over the pulpit in many years but often if nothing new contradicts old teachings we default to old teachings. I have heard this old quote in SS within the last 10 years.
"Consent cannot be given when the person is asleep, unconscious, intoxicated or does not have the intellectual capacity to agree, including when they are minors. Similarly, just because a person stops resisting or freezes in response to pressure, manipulation or coercion, does not mean that the person has consented to sexual contact."

"Let me be very clear about the responsibility for sexual assault," Ogles added. "The perpetrator is responsible for their actions. A victim was deprived of their agency and they are not accountable for what happened to them without their consent — no matter what they were wearing, where they were or what happened beforehand. They did not invite, allow, sanction or encourage the assault."
1) The absence of an affirmative "yes" means that consent was not given. No means no. Yes means yes. The absence of a "no" does not mean yes.

2) Responsibility. I believe that many in the church (and broader society) would feel that the woman had some measure of responsibility for "letting her guard down" or being in a vulnerable situation. Remember the Stanford swimmer that sexually assaulted an unconscious woman. Did the woman bear any responsibility for what happened by being unconscious? Ogles in this BYU devotional clearly said that the woman was not responsible and not accountable. If the woman did not make an informed choice to have sex then her conscience should be clear and she can begin the process of healing.

I call that progress.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 4666
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by SamBee » 04 Feb 2018, 13:04

It doesn't matter if it's new or old, it needs to be emphasized. And if it's been said before, say it again.

However, please spare a thought for the male victims of sexual assault as well. They have additional issues, whether attacked by men or by women.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5718
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Feb 2018, 13:21

Roy wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 11:32
2) Responsibility. I believe that many in the church (and broader society) would feel that the woman had some measure of responsibility for "letting her guard down" or being in a vulnerable situation. Remember the Stanford swimmer that sexually assaulted an unconscious woman. Did the woman bear any responsibility for what happened by being unconscious? Ogles in this BYU devotional clearly said that the woman was not responsible and not accountable. If the woman did not make an informed choice to have sex then her conscience should be clear and she can begin the process of healing.

I call that progress.
I call it progress as well. I think the section quoted above was mostly in response to the incident that led to making some progress specifically at BYU. There was the underlying "Well, if the girl hadn't been at the party she wouldn't have been assaulted." Well, duh! That doesn't mean going tot he party made her responsible for what happened to her and it doesn't mean that Provo police officer should have shared that with the Honor Code office or that the Honor Code office should be at all involved with her. It doesn't matter if it happened at a party, at her apartment, or at some random place on campus - it's not her fault.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Roy
Posts: 4785
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: New approach to sexual assualt

Post by Roy » 05 Feb 2018, 10:27

Also I believe that most bishops are not good therapists. Most understand the repentance process and see themselves as facilitators of that process. The first step in that process is acknowledging wrongdoing. Not acknowledging is seen as akin to justifying or denial and is seen as a barrier to repentance. If I am a bishop and I can get the person to acknowledge their part in what went wrong, even if only a small part, then we are back in familiar territory with my skillset and wheelhouse. To a hammer every problem is a nail. It is not malicious, just human nature.

I hope the points of this devotional somehow make their way into the CHI.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Post Reply