Is it horrible to drink coffee

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Rebel
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Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by Rebel » 31 Jan 2018, 07:42

I must say I have come back to the church after being out a year but I still and probably always will drink coffee. Just can't help it , I like going to the temple and want to go with my wife so if I go am I a terrible person ? I am looking at we all
have things we are working on and if everyone had to be perfect to attend the temple no one would ever go . Can I be working on the wow or be doing my best and still go ? What say all of you ?

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mom3
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by mom3 » 31 Jan 2018, 09:49

It comes down to something different than is coffee horrible. It's all about the Temple Recommend Question and you. The question is direct. The answer is yours.

I don't know how public you are with your coffee. Does your wife know? Would other members see you? I am not asking you to change on their behalf, but loving her and wanting to share something with her - you may want to live that portion as it applies to her and the other LDS people in her world.

Yes we are all imperfect. I think it would be great if we let members of any standing have a temple recommend. Everything is a work in progress. But we don't. Tithing can keep you out, wearing the authorized underwear can keep you out, so can WoW.

I can totally make a case that coffee isn't in the 89th section by name. That people drink loads of caffeinated and unhealthy beverages and still get access. But others minds might not buy mine.

You may like coffee, but what is your objective, your wife - or you.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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LookingHard
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by LookingHard » 31 Jan 2018, 10:15

I second what Mom said. In one way the answer to your question is if drinking coffee horrible, then most people on the planet are horrible. I don't buy that line of reasoning.

I would simply say, "why are you asking us?" I think it is really a question of you to ask of yourself.

squarepeg
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by squarepeg » 31 Jan 2018, 10:28

When I step back and take a broad perspective I recognize that the Word of Wisdom is really one of those gems that can make staying LDS worth it, even if an individual doesn't believe any of the major gospel tenets. I have watched close family members' lives, health, careers, and families be completely devastated by choosing not to follow it. Granted, in these cases it was alcohol and harder drugs that did the damage, not coffee. But coffee is a stimulant with addictive properties, and although it does possess some health benefits, these are arguably offset by the fact that people almost always add sugar, artificial sweeteners, and other additives to it, and/or by the fact that people often drink it excessively. It's also an unnecessary drain on time and money; a lot of folks would cringe if you showed them the total they spend in dollars and minutes per month or per year, on their caffiene habit.

Also, the surrounding culture, in almost every part of the world, is one where WoW-prohibited substances are consumed regularly. Some people are unaffected by their consumption, but some are genetically or otherwise susceptible to developing addiction to the various substances, which in turn limits their agency and their ability to reach their full potential. So even if you are one of those who doesn't become addicted or experiences no negative consequences from drinking coffee, by abstaining from that and the other prohibited substances, you help to create and maintain a safe place, a haven and a sanctuary, for those who are susceptible to addiction, and for those trying to overcome it.

We can also look at abstinence from fairly benign substances like coffee as another way we set ourselves apart from the surrounding culture, as a reminder to ourselves of what our beliefs represent and what kind of people we are supposed to be.

And then, like mom3 said, of course there's the issue of the question in the TR interview... The Priesthood holder asking the question assumes that implicit in that is the question, "Do you abstain from coffee?" Are we justified in purposefully deceiving someone in order to have the TR if our interpretation of the law differs from the official one? I don't know the answer to that, but I currently don't carry a TR because I can't wear my garments due to sensory processing issues, and even though I don't feel that this should make me unworthy of the temple, I still can't in good conscience answer yes to the garment question.

Roy
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by Roy » 31 Jan 2018, 10:37

As a kid I thought coffee was a sin. I remember going to a friend's church activity and seeing a coffee machine. From my reaction you might have thought that I saw people dancing with snakes (I didn't).

There are sins and then there are community standards. I believe coffee falls firmly into the later but the consequences can still be serious. Imagine you had a homeowners association that restricted the color you could paint your house. Painting your house pink is not a sin... but the homeowners association is going to react anyway. Coffee is similar.

I personally do not have a TR. I have told my wife that I may drink coffee if I were in a far away place where I would not see anyone that could know me and know that I am LDS. Otherwise, out of respect for my family's beliefs and that of our faith community, I will abstain.

P.S. I do not pretend that my decision to abstain makes me any stronger or more faithful than you. Coffee is just not my thing so it is an easy compromise to make. In life, communities, families, and marriages we must all determine the compromises/trade offs that work best for us.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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dande48
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by dande48 » 31 Jan 2018, 10:54

Depends on the "Leadership Roulette". Some bishops will allow a person to have a temple recommend, even if they are still "working on it" (provided they are trying). Some will not.

To put the odds in your favor, I'd recommend going out of your way to show repentant humility, share with the Bishop your struggles, tell him of your desire to change, and *maybe* set up a coffee-holic recovery plan (so he knows you are trying).

The most addictive part of coffee is caffeine (which is not against the WoW), so if you are interested in breaking the habit, there are many alternative sources you can use to "nicotine-patch" yourself off of it. Plus, there is Coffee Flavoring , if you're craving the taste. There are plenty of ways to get around the "letter of the law", which will check you off in the Bishop's book for sure.

I don't think drinking coffee makes you a terrible person. But IMHO, honesty is one of the highest of virtues. If you fib to your bishop, I wouldn't hold it against you. I completely get the temptation. But I'd rather hold onto my integrity and not go to the temple, than give it up for a recommend.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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-Lemony Snicket

Roadrunner
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by Roadrunner » 31 Jan 2018, 11:14

Rebel wrote:
31 Jan 2018, 07:42
Can I be working on the wow or be doing my best and still go ? What say all of you ?
Like others have said, the question is a straightforward yes or no. However, what the WoW actually encompasses is a matter of some debate. If you can claim with a clear conscience that drinking coffee is not against the WoW then by all means get a temple recommend. You don't have to ask the bishop if coffee is ok, you decide. D&C 89 says hot drinks which we obviously don't take literally because LDS drink a whole variety of hot drinks. Some consider decaf as coffee some don't. My own grandparents drank decaf and held temple recommends without and ounce of guilt and they just didn't tell anyone. I used to drink green tea and held a temple recommend because it was supposed to have health benefits. I ultimately gave up because it's just easier to drink water.

Once an investigator asked me and the two missionaries I accompanied: "so I can drink a boiling mountain dew but not an iced coffee?" With a straight face they said yes that's what we're saying. This cemented in my mind that sometimes silly rules don't have to be obeyed.

I told my stake president that during temple recommend interviews I conducted that I wasn't preventing people from entering the temple if they ask about coffee or tea and he didn't seem to care much. As Dande48 said it can be leadership roulette. My advice is do what you think is right.

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SamBee
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by SamBee » 31 Jan 2018, 11:54

The insomnia, headaches, heart arrhythmia, anxiety and gut problems it caused me were certainly horrible, and I don't miss them.

People drink coffee to perk them up, but like most uppers it slams you right down later on.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 Jan 2018, 15:45

From your own words only, I would say you aren't a terrible person. Rather, you have an addiction.

That is an issue you probably should address directly, along with what everyone else has shared.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: Is it horrible to drink coffee

Post by SamBee » 01 Feb 2018, 04:57

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_pro ... ade_coffee

Coffee has one of the most unfair trade relations and poisons the soil it grows on.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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