FP under RMN Presidency

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SilentDawning
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by SilentDawning » 13 Jan 2018, 15:03

My wife keeps telling me she thinks President Nelson won't be the new prophet. All because he's making an announcement this Tuesday, and that means he wouldn't be announcing his own presidency. Doesn't sound right to me...my understanding is "The Senior member is the new prophet unless the Lord indicates otherwise". Have the last five words of that phrase ever been invoked in our history? And is it the Senior member of the remaining 14 Apostles, or of the quorum of 12, one of whom are in the existing presidency at the time of the prophet's death? I haven't thought through the issues or given this much thought, so I thought I'd ask about it.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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DarkJedi
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Jan 2018, 19:02

SilentDawning wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 15:03
My wife keeps telling me she thinks President Nelson won't be the new prophet. All because he's making an announcement this Tuesday, and that means he wouldn't be announcing his own presidency. Doesn't sound right to me...my understanding is "The Senior member is the new prophet unless the Lord indicates otherwise". Have the last five words of that phrase ever been invoked in our history? And is it the Senior member of the remaining 14 Apostles, or of the quorum of 12, one of whom are in the existing presidency at the time of the prophet's death? I haven't thought through the issues or given this much thought, so I thought I'd ask about it.
There is almost no chance it will be anyone but Nelson IMO. I think Nelson making the announcement even proves that - if he's not the prophet he has no business making an announcement, it would be up to the quorum as a whole (IMO).

As far as I can tell, no, the senior apostle has never been passed over and the Lord has apparently never indicated that such should be the case. That's a pretty easy church history search. And it is the senior member among all the apostles (there can be more than 14 with additional counselors to the president and right now there are 13), although I have heard it taught otherwise (erroneously, I believe). And I think someone pointed this out before, one does not have to be an apostle to be called as a counselor, although it hasn't happened otherwise in a long time (but was common in the early church).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Heber13
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by Heber13 » 13 Jan 2018, 20:04

I can't imagine it being different than RMN, but technically the first presidency is resolved, and the Apostles lead the church, and they decide to reorganize a new First Presidency, or leave as is and run the church as Quorum of the 12 Apostles (Although there are 14 currently).

It isn't automatically the senior apostle, but if they do propose to reorganize the first presidency then it will be the senior apostle, and presented to the church members for sustaining vote later (conference).

It makes sense to me the President of the Quorum will make the announcement if the Apostles will lead the church or the First Presidency is being reorganized.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by Curt Sunshine » 13 Jan 2018, 21:30

I have no assumptions about the announcement - except that it will not be an announcement of someone else becoming the President of the Church. :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

NightSG
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by NightSG » 14 Jan 2018, 11:19

Curt Sunshine wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 21:30
I have no assumptions about the announcement - except that it will not be an announcement of someone else becoming the President of the Church.
"Brethren, the Lord keeps telling us that we should have President Monson stuffed and keep him in his chair, because even full of sawdust he'd be a better Prophet than any of us."

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SilentDawning
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by SilentDawning » 14 Jan 2018, 15:18

DarkJedi wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 19:02
There is almost no chance it will be anyone but Nelson IMO. I think Nelson making the announcement even proves that - if he's not the prophet he has no business making an announcement, it would be up to the quorum as a whole (IMO).
That is my logic. Her logic is that someone else would be making the announcement of his presidency if it were RMN. I think it's a thin argument.

Frankly, I don't really care much. RMN is 90 so whoever is first counselor will likely be the face of the FP for much of RMN's presidency if history repeats itself. That will be interesting to see. Hope they put a youngling in there so we can enjoy his vitality for a while!
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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nibbler
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by nibbler » 14 Jan 2018, 15:52

IMO the special meeting is something to capitalize on the social media thing. If the announcement trends (or whatever the kids are calling it) then a ho-hum announcement becomes a missionary opportunity.

This is the church moving into the 21st century.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there.
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DarkJedi
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by DarkJedi » 14 Jan 2018, 16:46

SilentDawning wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 15:18
DarkJedi wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 19:02
There is almost no chance it will be anyone but Nelson IMO. I think Nelson making the announcement even proves that - if he's not the prophet he has no business making an announcement, it would be up to the quorum as a whole (IMO).
That is my logic. Her logic is that someone else would be making the announcement of his presidency if it were RMN. I think it's a thin argument.

Frankly, I don't really care much. RMN is 90 so whoever is first counselor will likely be the face of the FP for much of RMN's presidency if history repeats itself. That will be interesting to see. Hope they put a youngling in there so we can enjoy his vitality for a while!
But Nelson is a very healthy and vigorous 93-year-old. Most I know that age are in a nursing home or should be. I do anticipate (and hope for) a short reign, but I think we'll have him for at least a few GCs. I don't hope for a youngling since the most obvious choice is DAB.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

NightSG
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by NightSG » 14 Jan 2018, 22:06

DarkJedi wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 16:46
But Nelson is a very healthy and vigorous 93-year-old. Most I know that age are in a nursing home or should be.
Right, but even the most vigorous ones don't tend to live indefinitely; they just flop over dead one day without the downhill slide of most of the others.

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DarkJedi
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Re: FP under RMN Presidency

Post by DarkJedi » 15 Jan 2018, 06:29

NightSG wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 22:06
DarkJedi wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 16:46
But Nelson is a very healthy and vigorous 93-year-old. Most I know that age are in a nursing home or should be.
Right, but even the most vigorous ones don't tend to live indefinitely; they just flop over dead one day without the downhill slide of most of the others.
My wife has an 111-year-old grandmother. She still drove in her 90s and wasn't bad at it. She is in a nursing home, but she is still pretty sharp (knows who we are, tells coherent stories of the past, knows the date, etc.) and she dresses herself every day. Granted she is an exception, but just pointing out it does happen. I do expect that one morning she just won't wake up. Hinckley was pretty much that way, I expect Nelson to be the same - hopefully closer to Hinkley's age at death than Grandma's.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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